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Marketing Issues: Natami Vs Retina Displaypage  1 2 3 
Joe M
Norway

Posts 500
10 Jul 2012 18:13


Chuck T wrote:

Announce news that you aren't ready?  How many times over the last six years would he have to announce it?  Announcing it over and over the last six years that you aren't ready would give me "pause" because there is something wrong if you have to announce it instead of not say anything.

He doesn't need to announce anything but saying something would be a good thing. As an comparison Mike J and Jens Schoenfeld speak to the community now and then. There is no reason why Thomas couldn't do the same.

Chuck T wrote:

Announcing that you aren't ready is what you want to hear?  The silence doesn't already speak volumes to you?

Actually, yes. I'm sure a sign from Thomas himself would stop Wojtek's conspiracy theories once for all. ;) ... and I don't think silence necessarily means he's very productive at the moment, if that's what you mean.

Chuck T wrote:

Announcing that you aren't ready makes the team look better, right?  It doesn't.  It doesn't do anything other than possibly make you look bad.

I agree with you regarding the "announcing" part but not talking to people is even worse than giving people false hopes. Do you believe it's better to avoid talking to people and hide in a "cave"? Not talking to people is what makes you look bad in my opinion. If he dosen't want or like to spend time on the forum - well fine - but he could at least appoint a person who can speak his case. I always thought Gunnar was this person - but he was possibly self-appointed?

I don't understand where the problem lies really. :( People like to hear about progress, people like to hear about details. It's things like this that makes the "Natami" ready for the future - it increases people's interest in the project and it's great fun too... :)

Olaf Schoenweiss
Germany

Posts 786
10 Jul 2012 18:16


you cannot understand everything under the sky...

Wojtek P
Poland

Posts 1597
10 Jul 2012 18:53


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

you cannot understand everything under the sky...

No need too. Good they  understand important things.

Thay Natami team is just treating potential clients as complete morons.

Partially you are right, as lots of people still waits.


Chuck T
USA

Posts 679
10 Jul 2012 20:17


Joe,
 
  Everyone knows the project is unfinished.
 
  I'll agree to your terms of having Thomas give another unnecessary announcement if you agree to having your Natami delivered last and six months later than everyone else for slowing down the project or for trying to slow down Thomas.  By demanding that you be heard above (1) above the needs of the Natami team, (2) above the needs of Thomas and (3)above those in the forum who are working or contributing.  I can name coaches who have had distractions in their life who went on to lose football seasons.
 
  I also don't know what normal person who wouldn't have their feelings hurt by some of the things said in the forum and that would include the conspiracy theories.
 
 
Joe M wrote:

    Actually, yes. I'm sure a sign from Thomas himself would stop Wojtek's conspiracy theories once for all. ;)
 

 
  It's when people's sacred beliefs are attacked, people deny the truth.  Anyone can make up a conspiracy theory and it is because he wants Thomas to stop working for a living and give him a Natami because he feels victimized by Commodore like every user has been lied to by Commodore.  Commodore said that Commodore users were the most loyal so basically you have an economic cult because most Commodore users were not loyal and the Commodore users bought an IBM clone.  If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at Irving Gould.  Get mad at those who used the Amiga for their personality and never gave back anything in return.  Get mad at some of the Commodore engineers who got paid and enriched themselves by making video but didn't give anything after Amiga went bankrupt.
 
  The conspiracy theories won't stop because they are driven by users who don't know when to stop because they are unahppy.  Answering every conspiracy is not the answer when the motives of the ones giving the conspiracy theories are not bact by fact so they are therefore suspect.  Get a life.  Thomas obviously has one.
 
  Chuck

Chuck T
USA

Posts 679
10 Jul 2012 20:21


Wojtek P wrote:

Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

  you cannot understand everything under the sky...
 

  No need too. Good they  understand important things.
 
  Thay Natami team is just treating potential clients as complete morons.
 
  Partially you are right, as lots of people still waits.
 

You don't know when to stop and you are living your life like you can get your way with everyone in every situation.  And you believe that it is fair to everyone except you.


Joe M
Norway

Posts 500
10 Jul 2012 22:48


Hi Chuck,

Chuck T wrote:

I'll agree to your terms of having Thomas give another unnecessary announcement if you agree to having your Natami delivered last and six months later than everyone else for slowing down the project or for trying to slow down Thomas.

I think this is where we see things quite differently. ;) I don't say he must spend a lot of time doing "announcements" or speak to Natami fans. I believe he could do both without the project being significantly slowed down - he could even gain something out of it. This is how I would prefer to do things if I was in his shoes but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do for him (of course). As stated earlier - I think everyone would be happy if he just showed up to tell us about his plans for the future. I find this particularly important after his decision of leaving the team for a while.

I'm actually willing to stand last in line to get a Natami if that could help to socialize Thomas a little. The most important thing to me is not when the "Natami" sees the light of day. What I think is equally important (and fun) is to follow the project's progress.

If he's having fun creating the Natami, he should also have fun telling his dear supporters about it, I think. :)

Chuck T wrote:

By demanding that you be heard above (1) above the needs of the Natami team, (2) above the needs of Thomas and (3)above those in the forum who are working or contributing.  I can name coaches who have had distractions in their life who went on to lose football seasons.

I agree with you that it's important for a person like Thomas to avoid distractions, that's why I came up with the proposal that he could have a designated contact person (who could be the one who spoke to the community on behalf of his actions). I do not know how well informed the other team members are, but to me it seems like there are no clear rules when it comes to things like this (sorry if this is something that has already been clarified in the team members area).

Chuck T wrote:

I also don't know what normal person who wouldn't have their feelings hurt by some of the things said in the forum and that would include the conspiracy theories.

Definitely.

Chuck T wrote:
 
The conspiracy theories won't stop because they are driven by users who don't know when to stop because they are unahppy.  Answering every conspiracy is not the answer when the motives of the ones giving the conspiracy theories are not bact by fact so they are therefore suspect.  Get a life.  Thomas obviously has one.

While I understand what you say, I strongly believe that most of the conspiracy theories that appear on this forum could have been avoided through better dialogue.

Well, as you wrote in another post; it's probably better to spend time on something more valuable than "wasting" time on the Internet and discussing things like this over and over (and I know it). ;) I'm a music man and should rather spend my time creating some new Amiga music pieces instead... :)

Jacek Rafal Tatko
Espania

Posts 607
11 Jul 2012 12:18


Chuck T , Retina Display is not only good for scientists , medical personel but also Graphic Artists , Designers , Photographers , Architects , it gives peace of mind as far as viewing colours from different angles , and tiny details are seen easier , sharper , crisper - overall , giving less eyestrain , saving time for productivity .

Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom

Posts 821
11 Jul 2012 13:55


Retina basically means "better PPI than you can see at the normal viewing distance"

It's a good move forward. Bring on the resolution independent everything.

Jens Drößler
Germany

Posts 137
12 Jul 2012 06:06


To me, the Retina "technology" is a joke. The OS only supports a quarter of the physical resolution as a "good" resolution. By that I mean a full pixel scalable resolution. yes, you can have the usual 1650x whatever or even 1920x whatever resolutions, but the scale factor is weird and you get NO sense of how sharp the source material is you see due to the scaling. That 1440x idon'tknow resolution isn't the state of art and everything that wants to use the physical resolution has to be specifically coded to do this. The question is if the "big" software suites will be adapted for it, since it is only ONE model in all the Apple portfolio now (and probably will stay for the top model notebook). Why decouple resolution from the OS? It's just nuts! Where is the problem to use the full physical resollution and instead scale the softwares graphics output that would be too small on such high PPI? In that matter, Windows is indeed better. The operating system itself supports scaling to a point where the system knows how much PPI you got, so a cm in a document is a cm on screen and will be a cm on paper after printing. The problem here is that many programs won't read the scaling information set in Windows, because the coders are kinda lazy. The GUIs of many programs will be scaled by Windows itself, resulting in slightly blurry buttons etc, but the the things you want to edit, like photos, videos etc. will be sharp and in full physical resolution. Still, with that high PPIs, the programmers will be forced to read the scale factor from the Windows settings to have the GUI in a a size that will be the same on EVERY display, no matter what PPI, AND with immidiate access to the physical resolultion instead of ill workarounds to grant any software only to a quarter of the resolution., which is below even todays standards. It just makes no sense!

With Windows you can have a multitouch trackpad too. My three year old notebook has this. And where Apple sells a seperate trackpad in a big size, my notebook had a 17" multitouch-screen too.

Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom

Posts 821
12 Jul 2012 13:51


Nice unreadable wall of text, bad PC trackpad.
 
  Your complaints boil down to "Pre existing software looks bad on it". Who cares, in six months time it'll probably be on the next iMac or mba, and by then all the software will support it.
 
  They won't even get a chance to not support it. Interface builder/xcode will just do it.

Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands

Posts 3991
12 Jul 2012 13:54


fun part that means the programmer must use a recent version of Xcode and probably turn on the support for it. :P

Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom

Posts 821
12 Jul 2012 14:33


Is hard not to use a recent version of Xcode. Getting old ones is pretty hard, and the way old versions of OSX get dropped by shareware/freeware developers extremely quickly say they aren't likely to be keeping machines with XCode already around for very long.

I'd be surprised if you could turn retina support off, at least for the interface itself.

Jens Drößler
Germany

Posts 137
13 Jul 2012 01:40


No, it boils down to "Apple want to do it differently, because they're Apple". XCode won't support it just by using the newest version. The coder has to tell XCode where to use the high resolution. Still, the coder can't place content on all of the physical pixels, he just can place 2x2 pixel tiles on a virtual pixel with a quarter of the physical resolution (when it's the 1440 width mode). To me, this is the wrong approach. You as the user have NO control over the physical resolution at all. But that's how Apple works. Computers for people who actually don't want to work with computers. Computers for people who are not able to do their own thinking. But not for people growing up with Spectrums, C64s and later Amigas! I know how to check software for suspicious behaviour before unleashing it on my productivity system, I don't need a system that only allows me to install software from an approved market (where Apple gets paid for every piece of software, even the ones that are free for the customer). And this type of making business is now transfered to how to use a display. If Microsoft proposed such a system, the world would scream in outrage, but since it's the hip and cool Apple...

I don't know what you mean by "bad trackpad".

Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom

Posts 821
13 Jul 2012 15:28


I'll just add you to the crazy list and move on. That wall of text is barely readable, it's just a bunch of vague and incorrect accusations and insults.

Olaf Schoenweiss
Germany

Posts 786
13 Jul 2012 18:03


It is very simple, you love or hate Apple. You seem to love them and I hate them. There was a short time when some companies wanted to build "compatibles" and immediately a certain company with someone called "Jobs" stepped in and stopped those tries. Since that time I know that Apple is only a monopolist like Microsoft (at that time a small one and now a much bigger one). I could tell some other "nice" stories about them trying to use software patents against opensource f.e. It is only a big american company acting like other big companies and trying to make as much money as they can and trying to create a monopoly.

Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom

Posts 821
13 Jul 2012 18:37


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:
There was a short time when some companies wanted to build "compatibles" and immediately a certain company with someone called "Jobs" stepped in and stopped those tries.

This is not true.

Chuck T
USA

Posts 679
13 Jul 2012 19:45


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

It is very simple, you love or hate Apple. You seem to love them and I hate them. There was a short time when some companies wanted to build "compatibles" and immediately a certain company with someone called "Jobs" stepped in and stopped those tries. Since

They were always expensive but I think the company might have done better to our liking under Wozniak.  Apple needed Steve Jobs but I think he took the company to the one extreme where their computer is more closed than Commodore users like I would accept.


Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands

Posts 3991
13 Jul 2012 20:49


Richard Maudsley wrote:

Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:
There was a short time when some companies wanted to build "compatibles" and immediately a certain company with someone called "Jobs" stepped in and stopped those tries.
 

 
  This is not true.

It is illegal to run Mac OSX on anything that is not a apple product.

This is part of the license agreement IIRC.(It is not a verbatim quote)


Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom

Posts 821
13 Jul 2012 23:23


If you would like to build mac clones, apply for licence. If you're some podunk computer store buying consumer copies of OSX and violating the agreement, expect to be shut down.

Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands

Posts 3991
13 Jul 2012 23:59


Richard Maudsley wrote:

If you would like to build mac clones, apply for licence. If you're some podunk computer store buying consumer copies of OSX and violating the agreement, expect to be shut down.

apple wouldn't license it's product to other computer companies that i know of Rich, so don't try to pose something that isn't so.

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