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| Waiting Until.... the Cows Come Home? | page 1 2 3
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Alan Haynes Australia
| | Posts 74 08 Jul 2012 08:25
| Ah yes I remember back in the early 1970's there was an inventor in Western Australia named Ralph Sarrich. He invented an Orbital engine for motor cars. I remember the news article about where they showed him driving around Perth in an old 1960 something Ford in which he had installed his engine. Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!! everyone wanted one. Great fuel economy, plenty of power. Apparently he had been driving it around for months testing it. Someone bought him out and then for the next I don't know how many years he was supposedly still developing it. Well it never came to fruition and in fact has now been abandoned. Funny that it worked in his car just fine. All most people wanted at the time was the one that he was using. They didn't want a better model. The Natami seems to remind me of that. When I first heard about Natami several years ago and particularly the first LX boards I was thinking, wow!!!!!!!!!!! I would be happy with one just like that as I am sure many other Amiga users would have been also. I am in favour of the get it out to the public and then get the upgrades out as it is refined but that is not to be. I have to keep telling myself that it is a private project (even though the whole world is in on it) and as such I have no right to expect anything. I will however keep visiting the site and checking the progress and like everyone else hoping that it will see the light of day. In the meantime I will go back to my Hackintosh/Windows 7 machine that thinks it is a Mac Pro and dream of an Amiga or whatever that could run this fast. To the Team; "Stay on target" To everyone else; hang in there!Cheers from Downunder
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Mr. Derp USA
| | Posts 41 08 Jul 2012 11:40
| "Great artists ship." -Steve Jobs
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André Jernung Sweden
| | (MX-Board Owner) Posts 988 08 Jul 2012 12:47
| And great hobbyists try to have fun, instead of breaking their backs to satisfy other peoples wishes of instant delivery :)
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Thierry Atheist Canada
| | Posts 1828 09 Jul 2012 07:03
| Mr. Derp wrote:
| "Great artists ship." -Steve Jobs
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He has billions of dollars.I'm sure that had Thomas, Gunnar and company been able to spend as much, we'd have them yesterday.
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André Jernung Sweden
| | (MX-Board Owner) Posts 988 09 Jul 2012 07:24
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
| He has billions of dollars. I'm sure that had Thomas, Gunnar and company been able to spend as much, we'd have them yesterday.
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Even if Thomas had billions of dollars, Natami would not be finished any faster. He would not hire people to take his fun away from him. The entire point for him is to design the best system he can, solving problems at the best of his ability - because it's fun, not because he needs it done by day X. If he was a business which needed a product done in six weeks, he would hire people to do it. But that is not the case. Would you hire someone to glue together your plastic model battleship so it would be done faster? Would you hire someone to finish a 10000-piece puzzle for you? No. Because that would be totally missing the point.Even Gunnar seemed to fail to understand this, and started to market a product of his own mind, not the hobby project Natami really is. :)
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Jacek Rafal Tatko Espania
| | Posts 607 09 Jul 2012 09:33
| Yes , indeed , very good point , it is a fun project . The greatest projects are those which conserve the fun of doing them , the fun means to be able to enjoy the whole process . Few realize that truth , even when they boast they do ... after a while the pressure is up again . Bit Bat But there is no need to pressurise anything , children play , the young ones and the old ones , and as a matter of fact , adults usually adulterate the fun by taking money into the equation as something overly important or essential and over time they forget the central idea or kill it with their low level'd spirit , quarrels , bonking around . On the other hand , now , voicing from the always vanguard realms of doing things at its best , some great artists , also in this discipline of doing a piece of hardware upon which software ought to run , for fun & for other needs , even for businesses & industrial stuff , why not , one may be generous and open up a project to achieve acceleration in the many tasks , as has happened here , some kind of spiritual commitment to the final goal of realising the thing , anyhow , in a team it is important to maintain the right kind of culture , for each and every .oOo.JRT | One jolly good day ... dreams may come true , hope & faith !
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Marcel Verdaasdonk Netherlands
| | Posts 3976 09 Jul 2012 09:42
| André Jernung wrote:
| Would you hire someone to glue together your plastic model battleship so it would be done faster? Would you hire someone to finish a 10000-piece puzzle for you? No. Because that would be totally missing the point.
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There are people who actually do that. Thomas does not strike me as such a person, However as a writer is blind to his own mistakes, Thomas be effected in the same fashion. Creating a system in a void is not in the best interest of the system for this reason. However i respect his choice.
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Lord Aga
| | Posts 129 09 Jul 2012 21:40
| André Jernung wrote:
| Even if Thomas had billions of dollars, Natami would not be finished any faster.
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Well it would be done a little faster, because he wouldn't have to do any job for living. But then he would probably spend more time with family and friends, and some other fun stuff. So not much faster. But a little :)
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Thierry Atheist Canada
| | Posts 1828 10 Jul 2012 17:28
| Yet another bloat clutterware add-on required??? EXTERNAL LINK
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Olaf Schoenweiss Germany
| | Posts 782 10 Jul 2012 17:46
| I agree with Andre I personally am different. I want to change and move something with the finished product, for me it is not important how much of it I have done myself (expecially if i can speed things up). Thomas is different, as far as I can judge it he wants to do everything on its own otherwise it would be not his project anymore. Of course one person doing sth. in spare time (regardless how genious he/she is) is slow at finishing such a complicated project. But we cannot change it...
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Wojtek P Poland
| | Posts 1597 10 Jul 2012 18:55
| Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:
| I agree with Andre I personally am different. I want to change and move something with the finished product, for me it is not important how much of it I have done myself (expecially if i can speed things up). Thomas is different, as far as I can judge it he wants to do everything on its own otherwise it would be not his project anymore. Of course one person doing sth. in spare time (regardless how genious he/she is) is slow at finishing such a complicated project. But we cannot change it...
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Thomas already forgot it.
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Joe M Norway
| | Posts 500 10 Jul 2012 19:39
| Wojtek P wrote:
| Thomas already forgot it.
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Don't be silly. How can he forget (and abandon) a project he's been working on for so long? It could happen if he encountered some serious "unsolvable" technical problems along the way but as far as I know, that's not the case. I'm sure he wants to finish what he's started. All we can do is to keep the faith, and wait.
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André Jernung Sweden
| | (MX-Board Owner) Posts 988 10 Jul 2012 19:57
| Don't you remember, Wojtek believes in his "he got bribed to stop!" conspiracy theory... Of course Thomas has not stopped. And its frustrating to hear that kind of crap all the time, knowing that it is completely false. But you will have to wait for Thomas announcements, since I am not going to speak in his place just to shut someone like Wojtek up :)
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Bartek "Banter" K. Poland
| | (Natami Team) Posts 2277 10 Jul 2012 20:57
| Wojtek, why don't you write another "Da Vinci Code" IT-thiller instead of wasting your talents here? ;)
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Joe M Norway
| | Posts 500 10 Jul 2012 23:47
| André Jernung wrote:
| Don't you remember, Wojtek believes in his "he got bribed to stop!" conspiracy theory...
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He he, I find his conspiracy theory pretty absurd actually and I have a feeling I'm not the only one. ;)André Jernung wrote:
| Of course Thomas has not stopped. And its frustrating to hear that kind of crap all the time, knowing that it is completely false. But you will have to wait for Thomas announcements, since I am not going to speak in his place just to shut someone like Wojtek up :)
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That's understandable. We'll wait and see what happens. :)
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Thomas Richter Germany
| | (MX-Board Owner) Posts 1425 11 Jul 2012 08:09
| Wojtek P wrote:
| Thomas already forgot it.
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Certainly not. It's, however, a common problem of many projects coming from the hobby "market" that they are 80% completed and then abandoned because the remaining 20% is so increadibly hard. From what I know, a couple of touchy, hard and anoying problems are still to be solved. Just to give you what I know - but I'm speculating as far as the completion status is known. So please don't expect an "insider report" because I can't give one. I'm speculating, and I'm extrapolating from where *I* would have problems.Purely engineering: *) get the line mode working. This is not so easy as it uses the same registers for something completely different, and the additional logic needs to fit into the existing design. It is probably not so simple to do that if this mode wasn't part of the initial design sketch in first place. I wouldn't be surprised if adding the line mode requires a complete re-design of the already existing blitter logic. It is anoying, will take a lot of time, and the frustration curve goes up. Purely technical "boring" problems: *) get the boards working. To my knowledge, a small series of prototype boards were produced that were then finally assembled by hand. They cost quite some $$$ to produce, and losing boards is a loss of money. Thus, Thomas tried to rescue as many of the faulty assembled boards, but this takes a lot of time (weekends spend of soldering, tracing and fixing), and the frustration curve goes up. It is a very unsatisfactory task, progress is slow. Management problems (the toughest ones): *) creating a business model from this: It means, you need to pre-finance a larger production batch, find a manufacturer, find a bank to finance the project, find a method of collecting payments by credit cards or similar, find methods to ship the boards. It typically implies that you need to either found or find a business (it is hard to collect money otherwise), you need to do tax declarations on it and so on. In other words, it is a full time job. Just to give you an idea: I had exactly the similar problem when trying to organize a JPEG meeting - it was a complete nightmare and caused me several sleepless nights just to get the financing straight. It worked in the end, but only by endless phone calls to the bank, to the meeting organization, to the DIN, to the credit card company, to a company of a friend who helped in the financial adminstration.... Thus, it is not unsurprising for me that, at a certain stage, when the progress no longer depends on technical brilliance but on organizational and management talent, the technical development slows down or stops. What it would probably take at this point is a management that takes up and solves these problems. (Quite unlike what most engineers believe, management *does* have its value - and I'm certainly not a man with talent in this respect). Greetings, Thomas
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Olaf Schoenweiss Germany
| | Posts 782 11 Jul 2012 10:19
| +1 It would have been much easier if this complex and huge project would have been shared between a team with hardware specialists (2 or 3 who work on the core), software- and system-specialists who test and work on drivers and others who f.e. help with management-tasks, marketing... It is a huge (perhaps too big) task for one person. But I do not believe that Thomas was and is interested in sharing tasks because it would not be his (100%) project anymore. I also think that he will continue to work on it but it is not predictable when it will be finished.
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Jacek Rafal Tatko Espania
| | Posts 607 11 Jul 2012 12:10
| Great post Thomas , I agree , in general , the more resourceful one is , the more generosity could be applied to outspend the problems in any given project , trust is always an issue , to trust the right people , to expect results upon delegating tasks ... response-abilities . in this project all details sum a lot of costs to stand up for ... Anyone having a few millions lying around & rottening away ? Great , I knew You would believe … , You are a financial Genius , let Us know when You are ready ;) Oo.JRT
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Chris Dennett United Kingdom
| | Posts 135 11 Jul 2012 14:49
| re. the administration and marketing: an alliance with the devil perhaps? ;) (Commodore USA)
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Chuck T USA
| | Posts 674 11 Jul 2012 15:15
| Chris Dennett wrote:
| re. the administration and marketing: an alliance with the devil perhaps? ;) (Commodore USA)
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I would go with A-Cube and Amiga Kit. I would welcome it if IBM got on board if they allowed us to have the Natami and would further the technology in the Natami. Their commitment would mean we are working with a winner. Their involvement would spell success and it is a no-brainer in my opinion.
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