| Has the Natami Been Tested On NTSC Or Just PAL? | page 1 2
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Chuck T
USA
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Posts 678
18 Apr 2010 20:16
| Has the Natami been tested on NTSC or just PAL?
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Michael Evans
Canada
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Posts 44
18 Apr 2010 21:19
| I hope Natami will be thoroughly tested in NTSC before release. Most European Amiga developers don't care one bit about how their stuff runs in NTSC - as long as it works for them in PAL.
I'm not saying the Natami team have this attitude. I'm just hoping not.
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Thomas Hirsch
Germany
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Posts 647
19 Apr 2010 00:07
| Neither nor.
For now only the VGA out is active. And because most VGA displays refuse to show 15kHz video resolutions the built in scan-doubler is active for the OCS hardwired synccounter modes (NTSC and PAL).This means the current board has been tested only in scandoubled NTSC and in scandoubled PAL for now.
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Thomas Hirsch
Germany
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Posts 647
19 Apr 2010 00:32
| Michael Evans,
I'm not saying your post has a hostile attitude. I'm just hoping not.First, we are not obligated to test anything. We are building the NatAmi because we want it to be the best Amiga ever. This is the ONLY reason. This includes of course fixing bugs. But I am sure some bugs (including NTSC related bugs) will be found AFTER release. And if you can't go along with fixing them AFTER release - please don't consider buying it. Would be a favor for us and yourself.
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Michael Evans
Canada
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Posts 44
19 Apr 2010 01:16
| No, my post was not meant as a hostile attitude. I am only hoping that NTSC is not ignored. There seems to be a bit of an "anti-NTSC" attitude among many Europeans - where they just don't care if it works or not. I just want people to be aware of NTSC when testing Natami. Obviously, bugs will be found after release. That's not my point. I just want PAL and NTSC to be tested equally. Amiga was both PAL and NTSC, so to make "the best Amiga ever", it should work equally well in both PAL and NTSC. Once again, I am not being hostile, just speaking from many years of experience submitting bug reports - polite, detailed reports about problems when running in NTSC - to European developers who reply with things like "I hate NTSC! Upgrade to PAL." I appreciate all work done to make the best Amiga ever.
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Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom
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Posts 821
19 Apr 2010 01:32
| I don't really think this matters. VGA is supported, and that pretty much works with anything. Natami deserves better than a TV monitor.
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Thomas Hirsch
Germany
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Posts 647
19 Apr 2010 01:34
| Michael Evans wrote:
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Obviously, bugs will be found after release. That's not my point. I just want PAL and NTSC to be tested equally. Amiga was both PAL and NTSC, so to make "the best Amiga ever", it should work equally well in both PAL and NTSC.
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It is intended to. Michael Evans wrote:
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Once again, I am not being hostile, just speaking from many years of experience submitting bug reports - polite, detailed reports about problems when running in NTSC - to European developers who reply with things like "I hate NTSC! Upgrade to PAL."
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If there is a decent bug-report I assure you it will be handled seriously. Take this post as promise!
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Michael Evans
Canada
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Posts 44
19 Apr 2010 01:40
| Richard Maudsley wrote:
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I don't really think this matters. VGA is supported, and that pretty much works with anything. Natami deserves better than a TV monitor.
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We're not talking about a TV monitor, but the screenmode used. I use a VGA monitor with my A3000, but I use NTSC screenmodes. Some old programs or games might only work in NTSC screenmode (or might be "promotable".. I don't know). A VGA monitor is used for output, but the screenmode is still NTSC.
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Michael Evans
Canada
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Posts 44
19 Apr 2010 01:41
| Thomas Hirsch wrote:
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Michael Evans wrote:
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Obviously, bugs will be found after release. That's not my point. I just want PAL and NTSC to be tested equally. Amiga was both PAL and NTSC, so to make "the best Amiga ever", it should work equally well in both PAL and NTSC.
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It is intended to.
Michael Evans wrote:
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Once again, I am not being hostile, just speaking from many years of experience submitting bug reports - polite, detailed reports about problems when running in NTSC - to European developers who reply with things like "I hate NTSC! Upgrade to PAL."
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If there is a decent bug-report I assure you it will be handled seriously. Take this post as promise!
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Excellent! Thanks. :)
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Thomas Hirsch
Germany
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Posts 647
19 Apr 2010 01:42
| Richard,
on one hand you are right. On the other the Amiga IS a VIDEO computer. There were heavy internal discussions whether to drop the 15kHz video input and output or not. Which are still not implemented (and for that untested) for now.The components for the 15k video (in and out) are quite cost intensive. So I can not promise the outcome but one solution may also be two different consumer versions. The same board, but one with video components populated, one without.
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Wawa Tk
Germany
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Posts 581
19 Apr 2010 02:21
| i would be interested in a 15k version for that matter but i consider it an extra i would be happy, it was available if even on a daughterboard. i recognize the design decisions of the team and thomas in particular as quite wise (as opposed to some other ongoing project atm). and no, its not ment as flattery..
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Fahed Al Daye
Canada
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Posts 282
19 Apr 2010 07:01
| Please don't drop the 15khz and if you do have two versions one with video component and the other not, then I will buy the one with the video component.
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Fahed Al Daye
Canada
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Posts 282
19 Apr 2010 07:02
| Michael Evans wrote:
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No, my post was not meant as a hostile attitude. I am only hoping that NTSC is not ignored. There seems to be a bit of an "anti-NTSC" attitude among many Europeans - where they just don't care if it works or not. I just want people to be aware of NTSC when testing Natami.
Obviously, bugs will be found after release. That's not my point. I just want PAL and NTSC to be tested equally. Amiga was both PAL and NTSC, so to make "the best Amiga ever", it should work equally well in both PAL and NTSC.
Once again, I am not being hostile, just speaking from many years of experience submitting bug reports - polite, detailed reports about problems when running in NTSC - to European developers who reply with things like "I hate NTSC! Upgrade to PAL."
I appreciate all work done to make the best Amiga ever.
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What is wrong with "Anti-NTSC"? :D :D :D
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One Thousand
USA
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Posts 832
19 Apr 2010 16:16
| I can understand where Michael Evans is coming from. I do not think the issue is a 15khz problem per say. But it was more about 50/60 Hz and the resolution. I much preferred NTSC modes for the higher refresh rate over the loss of some resolution. When so much was forced PAL, that meant I got flicker and had to resize my monitor to see the whole screen. Plus, most monitors/TVs here in the US were/are not made to go to a PAL format.
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
19 Apr 2010 20:48
| We're definitely not at a point where NTSC and PAL can be abandoned, as cool as 640*480 and above is.
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Fahed Al Daye
Canada
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Posts 282
19 Apr 2010 21:33
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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We're definitely not at a point where NTSC and PAL can be abandoned, as cool as 640*480 and above is.
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Yes, but let us face it. In the Amiga community we hate and despise NTSC ;). There is almost a hidden war against NTSC. For example, if you own a "classic" NTSC Amiga it is only good as a door-stop and nothing more. The reason for that because 90% of the games and software does not work on an NTSC Amiga at all. Also when I make Amiga games myself I work very hard to make sure it is PAL only, so....you see....he is right.
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
| | (Moderator)
Posts 5775
19 Apr 2010 21:35
| Re: "Has the Natami Been Tested On NTSC Or Just PAL?" The video signal in the Natami is produced the same way in the combination of Copper and Video DMA as the original chipset.
So all types will work. Also the NATAMI has build in "scandoubling" of 15KHz Modes.
Which make all modes visible on a VGA monitor too.
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Fahed Al Daye
Canada
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Posts 282
19 Apr 2010 21:37
| DOH! So you mean we cannot force people to use certain games on certain systems that work only on certain regions like xBox 360, PS 2 and so on?
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Team Chaos Leader
USA
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Posts 2094
19 Apr 2010 21:55
| Fahed Al Daye wrote:
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Yes, but let us face it. In the Amiga community we hate and despise NTSC ;). There is almost a hidden war against NTSC. For example, if you own a "classic" NTSC Amiga it is only good as a door-stop and nothing more. The reason for that because 90% of the games and software does not work on an NTSC Amiga at all. |
Foody, all my Amigas are NTSC and I can play every PAL game ever made. I just boot my Amiga into PAL mode and everything works great. Don't you have an NTSC Amiga up there in Canada? Doesn't Total Chaos AGA run on your NTSC Amiga? Total Chaos is a PAL game u know? Maybe ur brain got rusty and u forgot? :)
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Fahed Al Daye
Canada
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Posts 282
19 Apr 2010 22:23
| Hehehhee, you always give it to me in a gold plate!!! Is it because you are so obsessed with your game you cannot see straight ;) I don't care what the reason is...but I cannot help take advantage of you cannot seeing straight and giving it to me in golden plate!!
MY AMIGA 1200 was purchased from UK outer seas completely 100% PALLL!! IN the back the words are like in German, the power supply that it came with was in 220 V, it is officially one hundred percent European Amiga 1200. I paid a fortune for the outer seas shipping and handling too!!! So to answer your question NO I don't have NTSC Amiga, I have "pure-blooded" PAL Amiga. Second of all, those features don't work. I tried it with my Amiga 500 NTSC, switching to PAL as you so proclaim the game is still 100% smart to figure out that it is NTSC. A great example was R-Type and other games.
So PAL all the way please ;D :D
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