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SID Hervé
France
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Posts 666
02 Feb 2011 18:57
| HelloGunnar von Boehn wrote:
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We could add some simple stream decompression to the NATAMI.
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I feel that a related proposal had already been suggested in another topic, the answer was something like this is the job of the processor because of the many compression formats. But : Richard Maudsley wrote:
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If it takes load off the CPU, go for it.
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That sums up my thought.
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
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Posts 5775
02 Feb 2011 18:58
| Marcel Verdaasdonk wrote:
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gunnar my question still hasn't been replied to.
How would this feature effect a Amiga disk?(pre formated and already containing files)
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Transparent filesystem compression / decompression is known to AMIGA since 20 years. What we speak about is here NOT new and is solved all already.
Therefore your question is answered since 20 years already. ;-D The only new thing is that we could make it now a lot faster and run in parallel. Either with its own engine or using a MAID-Core for this. Using Maid-Core would actually be a nice usage case for it.
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
| | (Moderator)
Posts 5775
02 Feb 2011 19:02
| Matt Hey wrote:
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@Gunnar
For no offense, your last few posts have been kind of harsh. We all have are wish list of features we want including many the PC already has because they usually make sense. Besides Thierry, most of us recognize that we will miss many of those features in early versions of Natami which is fine. We all want the Natami to be cheap and come out quickly too. Many of us don't understand the costs or priorities either but have you received any good ideas from us?
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No offence but this is a misunderstanding.
None of you were asked for your opinion whether implementing this makes sense. We (the team) does know this already by our own ... My post was meant as an information for you folks outside which options are available for enhancements.
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
| | (Moderator)
Posts 5775
02 Feb 2011 19:03
| Louis Dias wrote:
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Matt Hey wrote:
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@Gunnar
For no offense, your last few posts have been kind of harsh. We all have are wish list of features we want including many the PC already has because they usually make sense. Besides Thierry, most of us recognize that we will miss many of those features in early versions of Natami which is fine. We all want the Natami to be cheap and come out quickly too. Many of us don't understand the costs or priorities either but have you received any good ideas from us?
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+1
We are told that something as old as and simple NEO GEO spite capabilities is not possible but somehow decoding streaming video is...
If hardware sprites were so complex, why does Amiga have the worst sprite capabilities while other lesser consoles can run circles around it? Meanwhile it can compress and decompress HD data on the fly... Is not the games market the target or are we trying to make streaming media players to be used as set-top boxes?
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I think you misunderstood the whole topic very much.
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3991
02 Feb 2011 19:10
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Marcel Verdaasdonk wrote:
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gunnar my question still hasn't been replied to.
How would this feature effect a Amiga disk?(pre formated and already containing files)
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Transparent filesystem compression / decompression is known to AMIGA since 20 years. What we speak about is here NOT new and is solved all already.
Therefore your question is answered since 20 years already. ;-D
The only new thing is that we could make it now a lot faster and run in parallel. Either with its own engine or using a MAID-Core for this. Using Maid-Core would actually be a nice usage case for it.
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I was unaware of this could you link me in to some documentation on this?
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SID Hervé
France
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Posts 666
02 Feb 2011 19:17
| Just one question, does that it concerns only one type of decompression for only one use?
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SID Hervé
France
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Posts 666
02 Feb 2011 19:43
| Please, now that I'm on a real screen, please forget these 2 stupid questions. Thank you
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Deep Sub Micron
Germany
| | (MX-Board Owner)
Posts 567
02 Feb 2011 19:53
| I think Gunnar's example NOVA is more comparable to other LZW kind of decompression algorithms. And I guess this topic started about about hardware *DE*compression intentionally. As far as I understand it is simple to implement (at least simple compared to a h264).
My opinion is that dedicated hardware will probably be not much better than a software solution. If a software solution really becomes a bottleneck than it is still possible to add hardware support.
JeeBee McJibble wrote:
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I mean, you could take the freely available VP8/WebM codec from Google and incorporate that! EXTERNAL LINK Video Decoder: 384 kGates logic, 52 kBytes single-port SRAM.
Can also accelerate WebP image format.
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nice idea, but still quite big for an FPGA
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
| | (Moderator)
Posts 5775
02 Feb 2011 20:02
| Marcel Verdaasdonk wrote:
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I was unaware of this could you link me in to some documentation on this?
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Sure, it was called XPK.
I assume you can find more about it on Aminet. Cheers
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Joe M
Norway
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Posts 500
02 Feb 2011 20:48
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Sure, it was called XPK.
I assume you can find more about it on Aminet.
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It appears that Gunnar's idea can be compared to DiskExpander:http://www.sgowdy.org/~gowdy/Amiga/AmigaReport/AR139_Sections/P1-7.HTML I used it back in the past to save hard disk space. It worked well but it was often difficult to determine if files were compressed by it or not. Therefore, if you copied some files to another medium and forgot they had been processed by DiskExpander you had a problem. It was a pain to extract them. They were not recognized as standard XPK compressed files. I believe I still have such compressed files laying around somewhere.
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Joe M
Norway
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Posts 500
02 Feb 2011 21:04
| Matt Hey wrote:
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Many of us don't understand the costs or priorities either but have you received any good ideas from us?
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Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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No offence but this is a misunderstanding.
None of you were asked for your opinion whether implementing this makes sense.
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I believe Matt is referring to the project as a whole - and of course you have got some valuable input from people here, haven't you?
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3991
02 Feb 2011 21:40
| searching for XPK i found 5 others anyhow most of them were created after the fall of Commodore.
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
| | (Moderator)
Posts 5775
02 Feb 2011 22:04
| Joe M wrote:
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I believe Matt is referring to the project as a whole - and of course you have got some valuable input from people here, haven't you?
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Yes of course.
I think in total the forum is a fair exchange between ideas, wishes answering questions or status reports from the team.
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1830
03 Feb 2011 08:24
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Joe M wrote:
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I believe Matt is referring to the project as a whole - and of course you have got some valuable input from people here, haven't you?
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Yes of course.
I think in total the forum is a fair exchange between ideas, wishes answering questions or status reports from the team.
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I do what I can.... mentioned XPK after all. ;-)
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Wojtek P
Poland
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Posts 1597
03 Feb 2011 09:34
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Transparent filesystem compression / decompression is known to AMIGA since 20 years. What we speak about is here NOT new and is solved all already.
Therefore your question is answered since 20 years already. ;-D
The only new thing is that we could make it now a lot faster and run in parallel. Either with its own engine or using a MAID-Core for this. Using Maid-Core would actually be a nice usage case for it.
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It is all great but only when hardware will be able to compress too.
If not few people will use it at all, having very slow writes.
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
| | (Moderator)
Posts 5775
03 Feb 2011 09:54
| Wojtek P wrote:
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Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Transparent filesystem compression / decompression is known to AMIGA since 20 years. What we speak about is here NOT new and is solved all already.
Therefore your question is answered since 20 years already. ;-D
The only new thing is that we could make it now a lot faster and run in parallel. Either with its own engine or using a MAID-Core for this. Using Maid-Core would actually be a nice usage case for it.
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It is all great but only when hardware will be able to compress too.
If not few people will use it at all, having very slow writes.
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Most people that I know to not overwite their OS regularly. Therefore you can compress your System partition and improve the read performance this way without any drawback. Also everbodz has certain types of data which he/she keeps withove ut overwriting regularly. For example you ADF archive. Compressing your ADF archive will save a lot of space and improve read performance greatly.
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3991
03 Feb 2011 18:12
| Gunnar how would this work for inter operation, say i want to use the Natami to format a HDD for a classic Amiga?
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1830
03 Feb 2011 20:34
| It will be awkward, but could some kind of list be made, such that: Do not compress:
DF0:
DF1:
DF2:pictures OR (probably better)
Compress List: DF1:, DF2:, DF3:backup, DF3:text, DF3:programs SD0:, CF0:backups Idea is, some permission system based on the user's desire for what does get compressed and what doesn't. That way you are fully aware of where compression is being used and where it isn't. Default is it isn't used at all. And it is controllable down to even subdirectories. Once you choose a directory or subdirectory, every one beneath it is ALSO compressed. If a directory or subdirectory that is on the list is RENAMED/MOVED, then it should be uncompressed! Unless it's new name is already in the list, that is.
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3991
03 Feb 2011 20:47
| Thierry that is actually not such a bad idea.
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André Jernung
Sweden
| | (MX-Board Owner)
Posts 988
03 Feb 2011 21:28
| I think that it would perhaps work well if there was software provided for reading the disk on Amiga computers that does not have the compression hardware.
@Morgan:
Discussing a possible technical solution in a public forum does not mean that this is what we are working on at the moment or that this is something we are adding to our todolist for the nearest future in any way. Please do not assume such things.
Natami is still at the hardware bring-up stage, and this is where work is focused at the moment.
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Do you have ideas and feature wishes? Post them here and discuss your ideas.