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Intel Wants to Charge $50 to Unlock Stuff Your CPUpage  1 2 3 4 
Chuck T
USA

Posts 678
19 Sep 2010 06:23


EXTERNAL LINK 

I saw this on 6502.org and the topic is:
Intel wants to charge $50 to unlock stuff your CPU can already do

Don't you feel justified by not building on the x86 platform?


SID Hervé
France

Posts 663
19 Sep 2010 12:26


If I understood :

They design and manufacture a product but they sell a limited version.
Then they sell the withdrawal of the restriction.

I am not sure that this is lawful...

Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands

Posts 3976
19 Sep 2010 12:34


I wonder if i would buy a batch if i could use the code on more then one machine?

SID Hervé
France

Posts 663
19 Sep 2010 12:51


This would not evident, if we suppose that each Intel CPU has a individual marking and that a form of protection is based on such identification.

Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
(Moderator)
Posts 5775
19 Sep 2010 13:49


SID Hervé wrote:

  If I understood :
 
  They design and manufacture a product but they sell a limited version.
  Then they sell the withdrawal of the restriction.
 
  I am not sure that this is lawful...
 

 
Isn't this common tactics already?
 
Lets look at IBM:
IBM does sell mainframes with 64 CPUs even if you only buy 8 CPUs.
If you later order an CPU upgrade they just enable the already shipped cores.
This method saves time and saves sending new physical CPU chips.
 
Or lets look at cars:
There are vendors that have an engine which can do 100 HP, they throttle the same engine to 70 HP via Software.
So the metal of the engine is the same.
They sell you the same engine for two prices for two markets.
Either with more or less HP, controlled via software.
 
  Isn't this just the same?

Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands

Posts 3976
19 Sep 2010 14:29


No Gunnar it isn't.
your car example is one is for manufacturing.
What IBM does with mainframes if doesn't do with it's workstations AFAIK.

your comparing eggs with fruit.

What this causes in the consumer market is more confusing then it already is.

I know if this is going to be a common market practice you will see a rise in hardware hackers and will find some keys on the web for systems like this, some fake some real and some blocked.

Mainframes aren't sold to common house holds, Car manufactures see that some engines they sold are getting tuned and tweaked by some of their costumers.

So if this is gonna be a common practice i hope Intel is satisfied with it sales, since i would see a rise in some unlocking tools. ;)

SID Hervé
France

Posts 663
19 Sep 2010 15:23


The problem is not in the segmentation of the offer, but how to market it.

Without an initial ad, I wonder about the morality of this kind of practice where a simple quidam discovers that its purchase does not match the ads have.

This exercise is similar to manipulation where it splits information channels based on the profile (This practice comes from the communication State and taken up by the crisis communication).

In appearance it is legal but not in detail.

Steve Thomas
United Kingdom

Posts 178
19 Sep 2010 16:58


This should not be legal, it is like buying a bottle of beer and being told you can only drink half of it unless you pay more money.

I don't know if it is the site or my ISP but this site is very slow for me today.

SID Hervé
France

Posts 663
19 Sep 2010 17:42


I have no problem of speed.

Thomas Richter
Germany
(MX-Board Owner)
Posts 1425
19 Sep 2010 18:45


steve thomas wrote:

This should not be legal, it is like buying a bottle of beer and being told you can only drink half of it unless you pay more money.
 
  I don't know if it is the site or my ISP but this site is very slow for me today.

No, it's like buying a half bottle of beer and getting the other half when paying it. I really don't see a problem here. You bought a slower CPU for the price of a slower CPU. You could have bought the full thing right away, but you didn't have the money. If you got enough money later, you can still get the full power.

I really don't understand what's so bad about it. You got what you paid for, and if the value for the price didn't fit your expectations, well, buy something else.

Greetings,

Thomas


Amiga Believer
Canada

Posts 282
19 Sep 2010 19:17


Those marketing practices are disgusting. Here in Canada, it would be perfectly legal to write, use or distribute tools to unlock the extra power of a crippled down processor or computer.



SID Hervé
France

Posts 663
19 Sep 2010 19:47


We must also know that we buy something clamped.

Basically
If you buy two lungs, it is to breathe with two lungs.
be obliged to purchase two and being able to use a single is called in the forced sale. Unless you are advised that your purchase can do more... And in the absence of contrary evidence, this is not the case !

Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom

Posts 821
19 Sep 2010 19:50


My problem with this is that a slow cpu and a full speed CPU under this scheme are the same, and cost the same to make. So this extra $50 pays for nothing.

Rob M
United Kingdom

Posts 29
19 Sep 2010 23:28


I don't really see the problem here, as long as you only pay the difference between between the feature locked model and and it's unlocked equivalent.  CPU and GPU manufacturers have been locking down features for years, it's called parts binning.  When manufacturing semiconductors some will have imperfections, if the imperfections are isolated to specific units that the rest of the chip can operate without, the manufacturer will switch those units off and brand the chip as lower designated model and sell it for less.

Often there is a higher demand for the lower end model because it is cheaper to buy, the manufacturer will often end up locking units on chips with nothing wrong in order to keep up with demand for the lower end model.

Now imagine that you are building a new system and you like to play the latest games and also encode video or do 3D rendering.  You've been doing a fair bit of research and you've seen from review sites that a Radeon 5870 paired with a an 2.7Ghz core i7 will allow you to play all your games smoothly at 1920x1080 but if you buy a lower spec graphics card you may have to compromise on the quality settings in certain games.  You can get either core i7 with either 2, 4 or 6 cores, you know that your video encoding or whatever will benefit from more cores, but the models with more cores come at a higher price.

In the end you go for the 2 core CPU because it means you can get the 5870 and all you games can be played at the highest settings.  Later on you start to find feel that you need a 4 core CPU for your non gaming activities.  Now would you rather pay the difference between the 2 and the 4 core CPU on the upgrade or would you rather shell out the full price of the 4 core CPU?

Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom

Posts 821
19 Sep 2010 23:52


Rob the difference between parts binning and this is that these parts MUST be fine, in order for them to sell the upgrade.

Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands

Posts 3976
20 Sep 2010 00:00


Rob M wrote:

I don't really see the problem here, as long as you only pay the difference between between the feature locked model and and it's unlocked equivalent.  CPU and GPU manufacturers have been locking down features for years, it's called parts binning.  When manufacturing semiconductors some will have imperfections, if the imperfections are isolated to specific units that the rest of the chip can operate without, the manufacturer will switch those units off and brand the chip as lower designated model and sell it for less.
 
  Often there is a higher demand for the lower end model because it is cheaper to buy, the manufacturer will often end up locking units on chips with nothing wrong in order to keep up with demand for the lower end model.

Ah yes the age old speed binning.
In a pure and simple fact here most cases are chemically severed.
in a video-card it is the BIOS or switched off due to defect.

If you activate such cores it is at own risk.

Now intel thinks to make quick money.
and quickly gained is quickly lost.
I am sure in the home circuit these CPU's will get quickly unlocked with no pay to intel.
This will of course in the future lead to return of the old chemically disabled units as they now do at AMD since even motherboard producers make the unlocking easy.   

Bartek "Banter" K.
Poland
(Natami Team)
Posts 2277
20 Sep 2010 01:06


Although it makes perfect sense from business logic point of view, it is not the case when one take moral or other philosophical stance on it.
 
  It is like destroying fake brands in custom offices. Unthinkable waste of resources, human work and energy yet rationalized from economic point of view. But reality is much more than just economics.
 
  It is like skipping crops in the ocean, because they are not economically legit. Yet millions of people starve and experience famine.
 
  It is like designing your headphones so they will break in a year, so you need to buy new one. Simply immoral.
 
  It is like desining a shoe, so it can only survive one season and not more by purpose. Waste of resources and energy. Please mind that our ancestors were buying shoes for life. Today shoe should last for a few generation then, we are more advanced now. Or are we?
 
  It is like taking the Internet and selling it in plans/packages. Artificially crippling it, so you can only use a few websites and if you want more, you have to pay more.
 
  Most of us enjoy full Internet access with our provider. Now imagine provider chopping Internet into small chunks, making available only a few popular websites. Without Google and Facebook. And millions other sites. Let us call it the Basic package. Today I pay 10 GBP for 20 Mbit, unrestricted, full Internet access. Now imagine only few websites available in basic package for 7 GBP. For a bit better package with Facebook and Google, you need to pay 10 GBP. And so on. To have full Internet access you would need to pay 15, maybe even 25 GBP, which is more than today. And they will argue: "you use just a few websites all the time anyway". That may be true, but the freedom is taken away. Te choice's taken away. There is much more in life than money.
 
  This is a real plan for the Internet already, unfortunately.
 
  There are few very wrong rules of modern economy, one is interest and another is selling the product not for the price it is really worth, but for the price the customer is willing to pay. Just like trading baubles and tinsel with native overseas tribes for gold or raw minerals. Unfair deal. Priceless for worthless.
 
  Back in the old days you paid certain price for a CPU, and you had access to full CPU capabilities. You have paid for the full CPU.
 
  Today Intel is trying to sell me the full price for the CPU crippled. We could argue this is OK if level of crippleness would resemble price level. But usually this is not the case. Crippled CPU may be cheaper than full, unlocked version, but not that much as it should be. And the full CPU price would be higher then it could be.
 
  So it is not like buying a half bottle of beer and getting the other half when paying it. It is more like buying a full bottle with half of the bear locked, as the beer is already there. However at the end of the day this is all good - we unlock the thing and enjoy full power for less:> While this tactics may be pretty reasonable with prices set in a fair way it still doesn't hold the water from he holistic point of view, as the thing should serve with its full potential.
 
  How would I feel, if I could use only 128 of 256 colors of my AGA Amiga? Or was able to enjoy just 7 Mhz of 14 Mhz CPU frequency?
  I would probably kick somebody's ass really hard!
 

Rob M
United Kingdom

Posts 29
20 Sep 2010 02:14


Bartek K wrote:

  Although it makes perfect sense from business logic point of view, it is not the case when one take moral or other philosophical stance on it.

 
  Surely it is better for the environment if you can upgrade by paying a bit extra to unlock unused feature on a chip that has already been manufactures, shipped and installed in your computer than it is to buy a newly manufactured processor which has to then be shipped to you and you have to take out the existing chip which will probably end up in a box despite the fact that it could probably be used for another 20 years.
 
 
  How would I feel, if I could use only 128 of 256 colors of my AGA Amiga? Or was able to enjoy just 7 Mhz of 14 Mhz CPU frequency?

 
  If such a machine had existed for half the price of the normal 1200 with the possibility to upgrade it to full spec later I could have had an A1200 in 1993 instead of the A500+ I had to settle for.

Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands

Posts 3976
20 Sep 2010 02:25


Rob M you forget that you have a leak current through the disabled part.
So you are using more power on a chip that is needed, that is not Economical for your energy bill.

And remember the full version does not 50 dollars more. ;)
To get from economic to the full cost 50 dollars.

So if your born for a dime you cannot become a quarter.
And if you think you can sit on the front row for a dime your wrong too.

Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
(Moderator)
Posts 5775
20 Sep 2010 05:53


Marcel Verdaasdonk wrote:

  Rob M you forget that you have a leak current through the disabled part.

 
Marcel why do you spread such nonsense?
The common why to disable a unit is by disabling the clockdomain.
No clock = no power consumption.

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