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Phil G.
France
| | (Natami Team Member)
Posts 151
11 Mar 2010 11:45
| So you want to make a native amiga.
But what kind of keyboard do you intend to plug in it ?You will provide PS/2 and/or USB ports for that, won't you ?
And what keyboards can be plugged in these ? Any keyboard that can be found for $2 in the computer-shop-next-door ?
But they are not even generic keyboards. They are PC keyboards. So I am sorry I have to tell you that native amigas have a particular keyboard, typical enough to identify the machine at first sight (and they also have a better key layout, but this is another story). You perhaps have in mind the ability to use any keyboard, including A4K kinds of ones. But those have limited stocks, providing more can still be found. Hence my suggestion here : build not only the machine, but also the keyboard that comes with it... simply because it's part of it.
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Channel Z
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Posts 213
11 Mar 2010 12:48
| Nice idea. Classic users as well as users of UAE and Next-gen Amiga-like OS:es might also be interested in newly produced Amiga keyboards. Will you provide the design and financing?
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Ralph Eisermann
Germany
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Posts 58
11 Mar 2010 13:25
| hrhr, we need some venture capital to burn ;).
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Thomas Hirsch
Germany
| | (Natami Team Member)
Posts 233
11 Mar 2010 20:51
| Yes, would be interesting to know how much it would cost to build an own custom Amiga keyboard. And it might also be interesting to know wheather people are willing to pay this price.
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The M
New Zealand
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Posts 2
11 Mar 2010 21:58
| There's probably no need to build custom keyboard yourself -- X1000 will be sold as a full computer (not just motherboard) so some new Amiga keyboards and mice will soon be available.
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Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom
| | (Natami Team Member)
Posts 397
11 Mar 2010 22:24
| There's no confermation on if it's getting an amiga layout though, and the cost of such an obviously low volume product would be immense.
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Steve Thomas
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Posts 92
12 Mar 2010 00:58
| It would make sense to me to produce a Natami board to replace the mainboard in an Amiga 1200, that way you get a case, keyboard, FDD, and psu although it might be a good idea to use a new PC PSU.
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Phil G.
France
| | (Natami Team Member)
Posts 151
12 Mar 2010 10:07
| Using A1200 case won't solve the problem for those who have :
- sold it
- never owned one
- an old, yellowed oneSo isn't there someone here who knows the pricing to make new keyboards ?
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Steve Thomas
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Posts 92
12 Mar 2010 10:21
| When Natami becomes available, there will be many redundant A1200 even now they can be bought cheaply and there is a thread on amiga.org and other sites about restoring a yellowed case to white. I don't know what else I could do with my A1200's after I get a Natami.
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Phil G.
France
| | (Natami Team Member)
Posts 151
12 Mar 2010 10:37
| But the Natami isn't only for former A1200 owners.
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Flash Lab
Netherlands
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Posts 125
12 Mar 2010 10:49
| The investment of the injection molding tooling alone will be a few 10k of Euros.
The more of the shelf parts you can use the cheaper a design will be. I reckon you would like a custom casing for the keyboard. If you'd use standard keys in a standard layout but with custom printing on them it could be cheaper.
I think a custom case without keyboard would be a lot cheaper to realise but even that would need significant investment if you'd like to be free in your design.
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Channel Z
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Posts 213
12 Mar 2010 10:56
| The making of a A1200-like case, including keyboard, for the Natami that can be bought by people who dont want to put the Natami in an old A1200 case has been discussed before. I recall Bartek Kuchta even making a 3D mockup of such a case that looked.. interesting, to say the least. :)
This, however belongs in its own thread, perhaps a resurrected old one.
I think producing a custom keyboard, even for such a case, would be very expensive, though. Anything involving small mechanical stuff is bound to be. With the available market for new Amiga keyboards, I would give a ballpark estimate price of way over 100$ per unit. Custom made hacker keyboards such as "Das Keyboard" cost about 150$ (though they are of very good build quality). They have, though, a huge market worldwide too compared to how many people are interested in Amiga stuff and can afford to make bigger quantities.
An alternative is to take an existing keyboard design from some company and just ask them to relabel the keys in an Amiga way, perhaps print a Natami logo, etc. This would be possible and a quite cheap way to get what we want.
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Michael Evans
Canada
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Posts 33
12 Mar 2010 19:41
| A custom keyboard would definitely be too expensive to make. Even if it was mildly affordable, the best you could hope for is some cheapo Chinese rubber dome crap keyboard. I've been thinking about what existing keyboard would be best for Natami. Of all the keyboards I have researched and tried, I think the best would be the Apple Extended Keyboard (M0115). (not the Apple Extended II M3501, which sucks in comparison) Why?
1. It is one of the best keyboards ever made - for feel and layout. 2. It has "Apple keys" which could be used as Amiga keys. Instead of making an entire keyboard, the Natami team would only need to make two Amiga keycaps from Apple Extended keys - that users could easily plug in, replacing the Apple keys. 3. It has a Help key. 4. They are currently quite cheap. You can get them for around $25 US. I'm now expecting people to say, "Why do you want to use an old, obsolete Apple keyboard??" If you've ever used one of these keyboards, the answer is obvious.
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Channel Z
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Posts 213
12 Mar 2010 19:53
| Michael, I agree that the Apple Extended Keyboard is a good keyboard (used it myself) but it has a few disadvantages: -It was made in 1987, and is only available used if you are lucky, and even then its not guaranteed that you get one in good condition
-It uses the ADB bus. Sure, there are USB converters, but this is an added cost for the user. I love the keyboard itself, but somehow it feels like one shouldn't recommend people to buy a 23 year old used keyboard as a first hand choice for a new computer.
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Michael Evans
Canada
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Posts 33
12 Mar 2010 20:15
| Yes, I see your point. I was just trying to suggest the best possible keyboard for use with Natami. It is disappointing that the best possible keyboard is a 23 year old used keyboard.
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Bartek K
United Kingdom
| | (Natami Team Member)
Posts 1330
12 Mar 2010 21:37
| Channel Z wrote:
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I recall Bartek Kuchta even making a 3D mockup of such a case that looked.. interesting, to say the least. :)
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Let me bring this design once again to your attention. Constructive feedback is more than welcome. What do you like, what would you change and what would you like to see in that sort of design: EXTERNAL LINK EXTERNAL LINK Cheers
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Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom
| | (Natami Team Member)
Posts 397
12 Mar 2010 21:44
| I love everything about it. Except the keyboard. It looks terrible. I can feel my knuckles bending in strange angles just looking at it.
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Todd H
USA
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Posts 12
12 Mar 2010 21:53
| Here's the best keyboard out there at the moment... EXTERNAL LINK
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Istvan Szekeres
Hungary
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Posts 23
12 Mar 2010 22:18
| This IDEA is very good but the Page up/down keys are not AMIGA features. I'm DEVELOPING a new AMIGA/NATAMI keyboard. It will some weeks... It's not joke. I will send some picture if done!
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Wawa Tk
Germany
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Posts 351
12 Mar 2010 22:33
| @bartek: couldnt we resign on that curves a la thierrys fantasy? besides wasnt natami supposed to be mini itx with pci slots, so how does that apply?
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