| Time to Clarify Some Things Maybe? | page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
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Stefanos Karousos
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Posts 3
13 Jul 2009 14:58
| @Marcel Verdaasdonk Dunno, I haven't bothered running any benchmark on WinUae on a powerfull CPU but from my long experience, Amikit and AmigaSyS feel VERY much faster when booting into the OS, loading time of progggies, copying big files and it flies whatever resolution and number of colours you choose. Not to mentioned the unlimited amount of ram :P Look, I rarely use Winuae. It in't a real Amiga and will never be. I am somewhat dissapointed from the long waiting of Natami. I also don't want to see the dream machine of every Amigan ruinned by some people that haven't invest a single penny all these years. Perhaps, it's crusial for Natami in order to suceed to approach these people. I understand it. If this is gonna happen though I want be buying this version of the machine. I will wait for a future more powerfull version of it. But still, I think that it is time from the point of the Natami Team to address some deadlines here or at least ETAs. Also I would like clearly stated all the feautures of the board (from CPU specs to FPGA and number of USB ports).
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3975
13 Jul 2009 15:25
| well that is just the point if this evaluation board, works out like it should.
the dev-board shouldn't be that far away.
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George Mystiloglou
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Posts 295
13 Jul 2009 15:42
| Marcel, just for talk and cofee, from my experience Stefanos is right!
We did "research" this NatAmi story for more than a year. According to the thread/topic responses on the Greek site, the only people whining about the price... are those people that never buyeda SAM, AmigaONE, Efika, OS4.1 etc! It is a specific cast of people that allways complain about the OS4.1 price, the price of "X" cpu, the price for NewOldStock amigas etc.
They just DONT want to spent for their hobby, they just DONT realise that a NatAmi is NOT an "of the rack" Asus motherboard. These people simply complain about everything. They just dont get the realty. Amiga is a hobby, Amiga needs big bucks to be usefull, Amiga is not a faceless pc.
So, personally, I don't care about their opinion. I care about those who invested 1000 euros for an AmigaONE, just for support, I care about those who bought AmigaOS4 without harware, just for support, I care about those who registered their copy of WHDLOAD!
Those who care about Amiga's future.
So, if they cant buy NatAmi, I dont give a penny. I simply don't count them as amiga users!
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Asaf Ayoub
United Kingdom
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Posts 332
13 Jul 2009 15:51
| dont forget the A3000, A4000 'beasts' for 2k,3k+ USD !
Does anyone remember the MSX marketing ?
This sold it for me :)
museo8bits.com/anuncios/msx01.jpg
EXTERNAL LINK
note: c64, same system, no changes for 10+ years !
Maybe some thought should be put into, rather than increase Natami specs for speeds sake, improve specs in a technological leap when financially viable to do so ?Dont forget, with the announcment of The new Alien Breed Evolution, by Team17, Amiga is getting alot of free publicity worldwide. :) computerandvideogames.com
EXTERNAL LINK
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George Mystiloglou
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Posts 295
13 Jul 2009 16:25
| Team Chaos Leader wrote:
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Amigahellas Forever!
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Yes, but Greece is not in the listed countries in this site...
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Michael Ward
USA
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Posts 234
13 Jul 2009 18:09
| Chaos, M.U.L.E = one of my favorite all time games. If I get the time to re-learn programming, this would be the one I would bring back for the Amiga (Natami). , Michael
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
13 Jul 2009 18:32
| Forget NatAmi, me wants Toshiba MSX. ;-) :-D Oh and M. U. L. E.!!!!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!! Brilliant classic! What was it, catch the Wumpas?
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
13 Jul 2009 18:36
| Just imagine, the ~266 MHz NatAmi being the SLOWEST one of the lot, it IS practically 2010 after all, a new DECADE.
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Christian Kummerow
Germany
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Posts 314
13 Jul 2009 19:53
| Marcel Verdaasdonk wrote:
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a i7, well UAE is a emulation, it even uses a jit compiler at runtime.
because of this it's like compairing apples with eggs.
I can tell you this that clock for clock the Natami could perform better.
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They always tell NatAmi can^t do HD playback. I try, on my Laptop 1280x800 is no proplem(frogger), with my other faster PC 1600x1200 should be no problem.
But in some thinks too uae is slower then my real amiga.
Starting is faster because there is no hardware to initalize, the HDs are spinned up and so on. The importend is the hardware, just amigaos is useless.
WinUAE has no USB/Zorro/Floppy/Amiga Mouse+Joy+Keyb/(full working)Serial Parallel.
Without it uae is nearly useless for me. BTW. whats about 1600x1200x8 or x16? i use this resolution often, is this impossible with Natami because of the low frequency?
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
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Posts 5775
13 Jul 2009 20:31
| Christian Kummerow wrote:
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BTW. whats about 1600x1200x8 or x16? i use this resolution often, is this impossible with Natami because of the low frequency?
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Congratualation, you are the 100st person asking this question!
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3975
13 Jul 2009 20:53
| 1600*1200*8=15360000 bits or 480000 Words (is a word is 32 bit? in this case).
this means a 64bit wide databus (double word) would need to run 240000 cycles every screen
so that is 240KHz*f where f is screen refresh rate.1600*1200*16=30720000 bits or 960000 Words.
This means a 64bit wide databus, would need to run 480000 cycles every screen.
so that is 480KHz*f where f is the screen refresh rate. 1600*1200*24=46080000 bits or 1440000 Words.
This means a 64bit wide databus, would need to run 720000 cycles every screen.
so that is 720KHz*f where f is your screen refresh rate. Okay, this data above here is only usuable if we only let our video unit do reads.(that means no other bus access including writes)
so let's take the latest example 720*60 for a LCD screen (modern computer monitor).
43.2Mhz is needed for the reads alone. (this is under the asumption the bus couldn't change more then 1 time every cycle)
okay add write so we should doule it effectively, making it 86.4Mhz, asume 25 percent of other data is on the bus.(this is a wrong asumption i know)
This makes it 107750KHz let's give it about 7.5 percent space for bit skew.(a safety margin i bett i set it too high)
so that would make a total of 115.831.250Hz.(FYI Hz is the measurement of signal changes per second) that last number should be discarded since it it a product of pure conjesture.
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Christian Kummerow
Germany
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Posts 314
14 Jul 2009 22:45
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Christian Kummerow wrote:
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BTW. whats about 1600x1200x8 or x16? i use this resolution often, is this impossible with Natami because of the low frequency?
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Congratualation, you are the 100st person asking this question!
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Maybe you should think about to do FAQs in FAQ that saves you alot
of time. And you can work on Natami.
Or make a spec, that includes all information not such a little bit.
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
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Posts 5775
15 Jul 2009 06:21
| Christian Kummerow wrote:
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Or make a spec, that includes all information not such a little bit.
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We have a SPEC:
Read this:
CLICK HERE
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P. Love
USA
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Posts 45
15 Jul 2009 06:39
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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Just imagine, the ~266 MHz NatAmi being the SLOWEST one of the lot, it IS practically 2010 after all, a new DECADE.
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yeah...and thats the cigarette box version... EXTERNAL LINK
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Christian Kummerow
Germany
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Posts 314
15 Jul 2009 15:13
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Christian Kummerow wrote:
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Or make a spec, that includes all information not such a little bit.
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We have a SPEC:
Read this:
CLICK HERE |
I know about, but thats much to few Informations. for example:
Supported Resolutions:
320x256 - 1280x1024 Did you mean such low Resolutions are only at 1-24 Bit possible or
do you mean that high resolutions are gernally impossible?
At 24 Bit okay, 1280x1024, at 16 bit this is bad.
There already TFTs available thats native resulution is 1600x1200,
that means this users ALWAYS have is very bad picture.
For me, i use a CRT its "only" bad because i use this resolution
for hardware devellopment and some Painting thinks. Only few examples, other things:
A list of every connector(including that one that needs a header)
belongs to a spec. What Graphic cards are supported(Driver) (because you may support only Lowres) I was told Natami have Video/AudioIn. What Videosoftware do you have for this and what it can do?
And so on.
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3975
15 Jul 2009 15:36
| the connectors on the NatAmi are to my knowledge.
external
-DVI this is for video.
-PS/2 for mouse and keyboard (this is remaped offcourse over the original signals)
-audio? i guess something similair to what was originaly used so tulip connector.(or something that looks like it)
2 USB connectors
and back ontopic, so how does this work the robin on the fastmem?
internal/external
-centronics port
-RS232
internal
-atleast 2 PCI slots
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
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Posts 5775
16 Jul 2009 07:36
| Christian Kummerow wrote:
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And so on.
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The final Natami hardware yet - so you can not get a final answer to your questions today. Just wait until the dev-board are there.
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David Ferguson
USA
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Posts 34
17 Jul 2009 22:34
| Just catching up. So, we have this dicussion on how much a dev Natami may cost. does anyone have an educated guess on how much a comumer version may run? Dave
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Fabian Nunez
USA
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Posts 312
18 Jul 2009 00:51
| Now that the subject of video modes has come up, I think it's a good idea to start thinking about aspect ratios as well. Back in the 1980s and 1990s there was only one aspect ratio for displays (two if one counts interlacing), but nowadays 5:4 displays are common, and both 16:9 and 16:10 displays are becoming very popular. From my understanding of how the amiga chipset works this is more a software problem than a hardware one (ie if I'm correct all that needs to be done is to program the copper appropriately), so it's something that needs to be kept in mind by whoever is doing the natami's improved graphics.library.
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George Mystiloglou
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Posts 295
18 Jul 2009 09:22
| The amiga was 16:9 from day one.
640x256 screenmode was very popular, especially on low-budget amigas.
Most A1200 with MagicWB etc. worked with this screenmode.
Also the 1024x512 mode was 16:9
I use 1024x512 today in my 32" LCD screen connected via RGB-Component and it looks great.
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Do you have questions about the Natami?