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Why the NatAmi MUST Succeedpage  1 2 
Francisco Rincón
Espania

Posts 62
20 Apr 2009 10:27


Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
 
  I think to recall that the AMIGA developers have intented the OCS chipset to be 128 colors but this did not happen as Commodore needed to hurry up selling the AMIGA.
 
  AFAIK the AMIGA chipset which was build in all AMIGA (1000/500/2000/3000..) was not the chipset that the AMIGA developers wanted to develop and go live with - it  was only the prototype version which was build for testing - Driven by commercially deadlines commodore had to make it the final chipset.

Ah! the hidden Amiga history, I like it so much. The chipset you are talking about was "Ranger":

EXTERNAL LINK 
Bottom line:
While the PC was upgrading its capabilities continuosly, the Amiga did not change substantially between 1985-1992. It was the fault of Commodore management, because the Los Gatos team, the original Amiga engineers, knew perfectly the fact that the PC was always moving, so they had to move accordingly to stay ahead in the race.

Imagine quasi-AGA features in 1989 instead of 1993. That was "Ranger". Commodore did not listen to Los Gatos team. Worse than that, they marginalized the team and it disbanded. That's the sad story. The Ranger chipset design was finished but never released.

There is an especially interesting reading, an interview to Jay Miner:
Part 1: EXTERNAL LINK  Part 2: EXTERNAL LINK  Part 3: EXTERNAL LINK 

Michael Ward
USA

Posts 234
20 Apr 2009 14:26


Francisco,
 
Isn't it a shame that the corporate climate in Commodore largely ruined things? This is so typical in the business world. I myself develop products (non-computing industry) and always, for the past ten years, have watched perfectly good things and technologies get ruined by incompetent business people. It is a worldwide situation present in every industry that is cleverly designed and executed by lesser life forms for the promotion of their lesser ideals.
 
At any rate, I like the efforts being taken in the Amiga community as of late including those of the Natami team. Natami represents the highest 68K approach being taken in my opinon. There are also the PPC efforts being executed by the two distinct camps (too bad they cannot be united). Aros is another interesting one and also seems to be reaching critical mass. Amiga is looking better and from many directions.

Regarding Natami, I suggest a bounty system be established as soon as possible. I think it could be a benefit for the developers, most of whom are juggling real jobs, families, and Amiga development. I think it could also benefit non-developer supporters of the project by giving them a chance to help from a financial standpoint.
 
  Anyway, I too share the hope that Natami succeeds.
 
  Regards, Michael
 
 
 
 
 

Francisco Rincón
Espania

Posts 62
20 Apr 2009 19:04


Michael Ward wrote:

Francisco,
   
  Isn't it a shame that the corporate climate in Commodore largely ruined things? This is so typical in the business world. I myself develop products (non-computing industry) and always, for the past ten years, have watched perfectly good things and technologies get ruined by incompetent business people. It is a worldwide situation present in every industry that is cleverly designed and executed by lesser life forms for the promotion of their lesser ideals.

Yep. I think that what Jay Miner said in that interview, regarding Commodore, is very illustrative of this. At the end he says something remarkable:

"Product success requires giving value to the product. Companies usually fail when they stop giving value and they become greedy."

I think that, in the context of the interview, he meant that Commodore was too obsessed with cutting costs down for every single component. This resulted in high margin, cheap products, but un-exciting in comparison with anything else, lacking the "value" Jay talks about. What he proposes, instead, is that some not-so-cheap components (cleverly chosen or designed) can give unique superiority to the machine, and a not-so-high margin is then justified because the product shines in contrast with the competition.

I think all bussinesses tend naturally to forget about this, after all, what they want is higher profits, even more than higher market-share.

Anyway, I think Natami is about some people building something for themselves. This is the exciting part of it, more than anything else. Remember what all evil character say in the movies:
"If you want something well done, do it youself".

The measure of success for Natami would be, for me, finishing this cool retro-computing gadget and combine it with AROS. I expect little cool things and experiments to be done with it beyond game-porting.

Amiga Dave / Amigadave
USA

Posts 18
20 Apr 2009 22:51


Combining it with AROS???  They are going in completely different directions!  AROS is primarily x86 focused and NatAmi is about staying as closely compatible to the original Amiga models as possible, to the point of writing their own 68k compatible processor and a display system that is the next step beyond AGA.

To me, NatAmi is what might have been way back in the late 1980's or early 1990's if the original development team with Jay Miner had stayed together and were allowed to continue improvements on a steady schedule.  So, the NatAmi won't be a computer to compete with the newest technology of 2009-2010, but will be more like the best Amiga system that could possibly have been produced in maybe 1990 if management had not screwed it all up.

If they succeed, I will happily run AmigaOS3.9 on a NatAmi at 2 to 10 times the speed of an 68060/50MHz using much of the old software, but hoping for some new 68k apps as well.  Hopefully OWB will work well and run fast enough to make browsing while using a NatAmi an okay experience, instead of a PITA.

Thierry Atheist
Canada

Posts 1828
21 Apr 2009 01:09


Ricky Jones wrote:

I feel like we got robbed.

Hi Ricky,

That sums it up excellently, because we were.

I love what people here have to say.

I feel very at home.

Hi David,

Are you really concerned that new apps won't come out..... To me, how could they NOT????

Amiga to me is like clay/Plasticine, Lego, Mechano, Lite Brite, plastic (to assemble) models, and comic books all rolled up into one!

Maybe now you can all understand why I'm so excited, at the age of 42.

Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands

Posts 3976
21 Apr 2009 07:21


I just realized this I am half the age of Thierry....
That is way off topic.
Natami is the leap that shoud have been take all those years ago, and offcourse it would have been more expansive.
But i'll say this quantity will never be a good substitude for quality.
And let's hope that is what we are aiming for.

Francisco Rincón
Espania

Posts 62
21 Apr 2009 16:42


David Morris / amigadave wrote:

Combining it with AROS???  They are going in completely different directions!  AROS is primarily x86 focused and NatAmi is about staying as closely compatible to the original Amiga models...

There is a subproject in AROS to create a Kickstart replacement entirely based on AROS source.

The Natami team (at least from what I can read from Gunnar's comments) is interested in a free, open-source Kickstart.

CLICK HERE 
If they create their own hardware, controlled by them, it sounds logical to me that they want an OS that is also controlled by them too.

The first Natami, though, will surely use a patched original Kickstart. But in the future, it could be very convenient to have an AROS Kickstart running on Natami.

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