| What Is the Cost In Parts? | page 1 2
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Chuck T
USA
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Posts 672
01 Mar 2012 16:04
| What is the cost in parts for the Natami? I'm not asking what labor is. I'm not asking how much the Natami is going to sell for or what shipping is. I just want a ballpark figure by asking how much the Natami cost in parts.
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Jakob Eriksson
Sweden
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Posts 1097
02 Mar 2012 07:09
| That depends a LOT on how many parts you buy at once.
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3974
02 Mar 2012 08:49
| Jakob Eriksson wrote:
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That depends a LOT on how many parts you buy at once.
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Jakob besides that it depends on the quality of the parts the time you can wait for the delivery. There is a difference even in type of part, size, and format. (conventional vs SMD, metalfilm vs carbon, 1206 VS 0805)
The list goes on and on.
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Rune Stensland
Norway
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Posts 871
02 Mar 2012 09:00
| One thing is certain. Replacing the Mc68060 with the N050 (implemented in the FPGA) will lower the cost..
Cpu cards can be sold withouth the 060 chip, so that old amigausers can extract their chip from their old systems and use it on Natami.
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André Jernung
Sweden
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Posts 988
02 Mar 2012 09:05
| For starters, we can examine the mainboard FPGA. This is the model:
EP4CE55F23C6N CYCLONE IV FPGA 55K 484FBGAAssuming you would want to get a single chip to build one system for yourself, you would have to find a retailer that sells single chips. Most sell them in the standard packages of 60 chips. This retailer seems to sell single chips, though:
EXTERNAL LINK
Okay. $173.10 + shipping. One component out of a couple of hundreds down. Anyone want to continue?
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André Jernung
Sweden
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Posts 988
02 Mar 2012 09:18
| Lets do one more. We can look at the CPLD, which acts as the Natami Gayle chip. It is a EPM2210GF256C5N MAX II CPLD 2210 LE 256-FBGA
Also an Altera chip, like the main FPGA.
A common vendor like DigiKey sells this for $31.70 + shipping.
EXTERNAL LINK
So now we have reached 173.1 + 31.7 = $204.80 + shipping.
Two components of a couple of hundreds down. :)
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Rune Stensland
Norway
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Posts 871
02 Mar 2012 09:23
| And then we could add the price for a brand new Mc68060:
EXTERNAL LINK
MC68EC060ZU75 10000 @ $228.79 each
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André Jernung
Sweden
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Posts 988
02 Mar 2012 09:31
| Ah, and if you include the CPU card, then of course you need to include the CPU card FPGA. It is a
EP3C5F256C6N CYCLONE III FPGA 5K 256-FBGA
This one is not so expensive, because it has few logic elements. At DigiKey, you can buy it for $26.80:
EXTERNAL LINK
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3974
02 Mar 2012 10:29
| I think i posted in another thread i would like to help with BOM mastering.
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Claudio Wieland
Germany
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Posts 703
02 Mar 2012 10:50
| While we're at it, we don't want to forget PCB manufacturing and part placing cost (which Thomas probably does himself. A man-hour of engineering is steep EUR-wise, so you're lucky he does it in his spare time..).
@Marcel
I think Thomas has a good grasp on BOM mastering himself ;=) .
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3974
02 Mar 2012 11:16
| Claudio I was aware of that. ;)
Even so for BOM mastering there is usually a need for a second opinion when economics come into play.
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Lorenzo Lorenko
Italy
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Posts 63
02 Mar 2012 12:55
| I'm following this project for several months, but I have not yet figured out when it's available and what cost will!
Everyone seems to avoid the question.....sorry, frustation...
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Lord Aga
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Posts 129
02 Mar 2012 14:23
| I don't think the team is avoiding the answer out of malice.
It is really hard to say the correct price. Even if you know all the component prices. Only when the final design is done, they will agree on the number of boards for the first run. And only then can we have an approximate price.
It would be very irresponsible to throw wild guesses.
What if someone says it's gonna cost 500 EUR, and then it turns out it's going to be 600 EUR. Imagine the bickering...
Also they can overshoot it, and many people would be turned down by the high price (even if it will be smaller actually)
So please everyone, be patient.
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Nixus Minimax
Germany
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Posts 272
02 Mar 2012 14:45
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Yes, just look at the OpenPandora project. They started pre-orders in 2008 for a price of 249¤ when the hardware wasn't even designed yet. 4,000 people ordered one which means that the project had 1 million ¤ to spend. In the end hundreds of people (if not thousands) canceled their orders after two or three years of waiting putting the team in trouble. I think the price of the (unavailable) Pandora is now 449¤ or something like that. And this is three and a half years after the first pre-orders for the same piece of hardware. Obviously they didn't do the math correctly.When there are pre-orders for the Natami, people should order one setting a personal maximum price and then the team should decide on how many boards they can produce meeting as many orders as possible. For example, if 100 people are willing to pay up to 500¤, another 200 are willing to pay up to 400¤ and 700 are willing to pay 300¤, it may turn out that 1,000 boards can be produced for 280¤ each and every pre-order can be satisfied for a price of 280¤ each. On the other hand they might find that 1,000 boards could only be produced for a price of 340¤ each. Then, they could check what 300 boards would cost. If they would cost less than 400¤, they could satisfy the 300 pre-orders offering a maximum of 400¤ or more.
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3974
02 Mar 2012 15:07
| IMHO at this time there can be only a fair answer to this topic.
What it's worth. ;)
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
02 Mar 2012 19:59
| I paid $2,500 Canadian in 1989 for an A2000 with 1 Meg of Chip RAM and a 1084 monitor (not the stereo one). No hard drive or fast RAM or modem or CD-ROM. It was a brand new NTSC 7.14 MHz 68000. So. I am prepared to pay as much as I can raise as this Amiga is OFF THE SCALE compared to the old statistics.
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Jakob Eriksson
Sweden
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Posts 1097
02 Mar 2012 22:59
| Adding to faithful hype machine Thierry, not only are the specs off the chart compared to A1000, but this whole development represents something new - that we don't have to wait for corporations, but can shape our own future.
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Lorenzo Lorenko
Italy
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Posts 63
05 Mar 2012 11:09
| Ok, question on price is premature, some time ago someone said that the final board were ready to product in February. Are there any news? thank you very much
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3974
05 Mar 2012 20:43
| yes the price question is a little premature since there can be a lot of difference depending on the initial production size.
The more units moved, the less they cost.
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Asaf Ayoub
United Kingdom
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Posts 332
05 Mar 2012 22:22
| question is not premature. Its a good estimate if 90% cost is for 2-3 main items. BOM of proto should have been released from 1st day available. excluding asian parts, cost of 90% parts ~$600. good to know, from this, what alternatives could we use ? in future.
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Do you have questions about the Natami?