| Java On Natami? | page 1 2 3
|
|---|
|
|---|
Simon Richelle
France
| |
Posts 9
08 Jul 2011 10:19
| Hello everybody, I've been reading the forum for a long time now... But I'm totally ignorant in all these processors, fpga, motherboard's things... I'm just reading and trying to understand ;-) I know that there is only one possibility to run Java code on Amiga for the moment : Jamiga, that is being adapted for AROS...
EXTERNAL LINK
Altough, considering Natami is based on a FPGA, I was wondering :
Could the Java Optimized Processor be implemented into the natami FPGA? ==> EXTERNAL LINK
There's quite a large number of Java tools around so, it could be intersting, don't you think?
(I know that Java is not the cleaniest and compact language, and that a lot of poeple here won't see the point in having java on natami, but I do personally think it's an important feature for actual computers...) Thanks for your answers!
| |
Deep Sub Micron
Germany
| | (MX-Board Owner)
Posts 567
08 Jul 2011 10:51
| I like Java too. But I see the Java byte code more as a intermediate language that needs to be (just in time) compiled to the target architecture. So, there are no plans to add a Java Optimized Processor to Natami.
If there is a way to boost the Java performance by some 68k extensions it is worth talking about. (But no executing of plain byte code.)
| |
Simon Richelle
France
| |
Posts 9
08 Jul 2011 13:07
| ok thanks for the answer :)
| |
Jakob Eriksson
Sweden
| | (Moderator)
Posts 1097
08 Jul 2011 13:12
| Java can also compiled directly to native code, which is an often overlooked possibility. I am not talking about JIT. EXTERNAL LINK Java used like this still uses a little more memory than for instance a C++ program, but can otherwise easily be just as fast as a C++ program. Check it out!
| |
Wojtek P
Poland
| |
Posts 1597
27 Jul 2011 18:54
| Simon Richelle wrote:
|
Hello everybody,
I've been reading the forum for a long time now... But I'm totally ignorant in all these processors, fpga, motherboard's things... I'm just reading and trying to understand ;-)
I know that there is only one possibility to run Java code on Amiga for the moment : Jamiga, that is being adapted for AROS...
EXTERNAL LINK
Altough, considering Natami is based on a FPGA, I was wondering :
Could the Java Optimized Processor be implemented into the natami FPGA? ==> EXTERNAL LINK
There's quite a large number of Java tools around so, it could be intersting, don't you think?
(I know that Java is not the cleaniest and compact language, and that a lot of poeple here won't see the point in having java on natami, but I do personally think it's an important feature for actual computers...)
Thanks for your answers!
|
Why people want to hurt that platform - Natami - so much.
| |
Samuel D Crow
USA
| | (Natami Team)
Posts 1295
27 Jul 2011 19:00
| The hard part about getting Java to run on Amiga is that GNU Classpath hasn't been ported to our platform. Now that Oracle owns Java, it is not worth the effort as far as I can tell.
| |
Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
| |
Posts 3977
27 Jul 2011 19:46
| Samuel D Crow wrote:
|
The hard part about getting Java to run on Amiga is that GNU Classpath hasn't been ported to our platform. Now that Oracle owns Java, it is not worth the effort as far as I can tell.
|
How is that a problem?
| |
Samuel D Crow
USA
| | (Natami Team)
Posts 1295
27 Jul 2011 20:25
| Oracle is trying to undo just about anything that Sun Microsystems did right, in order to make their software more proprietary and ultimately profitable. If you look at all of the open-source software that Sun made, you can find a hostile fork of just about every project that was done as soon as Oracle took over. OpenOffice.org exists as a shell of its previous existence and LibreOffice is prospering. I forget what it's called, but there's a fork of OpenSolaris now also since Oracle announced that future releases of Solaris would be closed-source. Now, tying it all together, OpenJava is still GPL but the test code to certify a JVM as being Java compliant is closed-source now. The Apache project is forking Java as a result of that. Personally, I think that C++11 will be more worth the effort in the long-run than Java. We might even be able to port LibC++ from the Mac since it's dual-licensed as University of Illinois Public License or MIT License. Even web apps are going to be written in C++ via Google's Portable Native Client software.
| |
Team Chaos Leader
USA
| | (Moderator)
Posts 2094
27 Jul 2011 22:44
| Some years ago Sun announced they would opensource Java. Did they ever follow thru on their promise?
| |
Samuel D Crow
USA
| | (Natami Team)
Posts 1295
28 Jul 2011 01:01
| Yes, most of Java is under the GNU Public License 2.0. It's called OpenJava now for that reason.
| |
Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
| |
Posts 3977
28 Jul 2011 10:12
| It's oracle's own fault that 'volunteers' run for the hills at the first sign of trouble.
Oracle want's to see money out of their investment now!
Sun assumed it would make enough money with it's server products and made enough good will with their open software.
It's no rosegarden the bussiness both were in.(Sun is out of the run)
Sun made a lot of good will on the freelance dev's they had, hence it is why that there is so much good java software out there.
Oracle want to see a return which it cannot get because it would make them look like one of the evil empires in the business and this could potentialy make the takeover of Sun a moot point.
Besides IMHO Oracle should have taken a slower start on sowing it's seeds and utilized the hardware branch better then they did.
| |
Wojtek P
Poland
| |
Posts 1597
28 Jul 2011 14:32
| Samuel D Crow wrote:
|
Oracle is trying to undo just about anything that Sun Microsystems did right, in order to make their software more proprietary and ultimately profitable.
|
Your basic fault is assuming that JAVA was ever useful.
But you are right that oracle will make sure it will be even worse.
I recommend stopping entirely discussion about all these trashware.
It have no real value esp. for Natami.REALLY portable language was invented already over 40 years ago.
It is called C.
| |
Ajc ;)
United Kingdom
| |
Posts 688
28 Jul 2011 16:18
| I'd much rather see a port of MONO/C# but that's a personal preference as I dislike Java and it's coffee-named-libraries. Java does have a lot of tools and other software written using it.
| |
Team Chaos Leader
USA
| | (Moderator)
Posts 2094
28 Jul 2011 16:23
| Wojtek P wrote:
|
Your basic fault is assuming that JAVA was ever useful.
|
I never thought JAVA was useful. If I could have worked out a way for it to be useful then I would have used it.
| |
Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
| |
Posts 3977
28 Jul 2011 16:28
| Team Chaos Leader wrote:
|
Wojtek P wrote:
|
Your basic fault is assuming that JAVA was ever useful.
|
I never thought JAVA was useful. If I could have worked out a way for it to be useful then I would have used it.
|
LOL, TCL.
| |
Thomas Clarke
United Kingdom
| |
Posts 286
28 Jul 2011 17:18
| Wojtek P wrote:
|
Your basic fault is assuming that JAVA was ever useful.
|
Oh sure, that makes sense, why would anyone use Java for anything, Wojtek thinks it's useless, therefore it must be. A programming language doesn't become popular for no good reason, some programmers actually pick languages based on their strengths rather than blindly following their emotions. Perhaps it would be better to ask yourself why Java is popular in the business application world. Hint: it's not JUST because a big company backed it.
| |
Team Chaos Leader
USA
| | (Moderator)
Posts 2094
28 Jul 2011 18:02
| The main reason that JAVA is "popular" is because that is what colleges push on unsuspecting students. @Thomas Clarke
If you have found JAVA useful to you, then that is cool with me.
I only criticize the language, not the ppl who use it :) I would sincerely like to know why writing code in JAVA is useful to you?
| |
Deep Sub Micron
Germany
| | (MX-Board Owner)
Posts 567
28 Jul 2011 20:42
| Team Chaos Leader wrote:
|
I only criticize the language, not the ppl who use it :)
|
No you don't criticized the language, yet. You just told that you don't like it. It makes no sense discussing here whether java is good or bad. It is like rating water good or bad. Many people drowned in water, but it is also important for live. You can not find in java something special that no other language has. I say, it is just a good mix of language feature, I like. When choosing the right language for the right job then java often fits good enough.
| |
Samuel D Crow
USA
| | (Natami Team)
Posts 1295
28 Jul 2011 20:53
| There's an off topic rant about Java Bytecode on a C programming forum on LinkedIn that addresses the issues of running new languages on Java Bytecode: EXTERNAL LINK
In short, Java's Bytecode is so tied to the language that it sucks for just about any other language. Also, trying to implement C code on a Java hardware machine is troublesome at best.
| |
Thomas Clarke
United Kingdom
| |
Posts 286
28 Jul 2011 21:22
| Team Chaos Leader wrote:
|
The main reason that JAVA is "popular" is because that is what colleges push on unsuspecting students.
@Thomas Clarke
If you have found JAVA useful to you, then that is cool with me.
I only criticize the language, not the ppl who use it :)
I would sincerely like to know why writing code in JAVA is useful to you?
|
I don't personally code in Java, but I know enough about it to know that it has its merits. I think most people who diss Java without using it do so because they dislike the concept of running code in a VM environment. As for it's popularity being that's what colleges push on students, it seems we're looking at a chicken and egg scenario, personally I'd say the colleges started pushing it after it became a popular language for use in the business world, and the colleges wanted to give students skills they can make money with in the business world. As far as I can tell, colleges used to push languages like Scheme a lot more, which is a great tool for learning important programming concepts, but not so great when you're trying to land a job. I'm a fan of functional programming languages though, so please do not think I'm dissing Scheme, I am not, I'm just pointing out that often colleges base their curriculum on what the market is looking for, Java being one example of this.
| |
|
Do you have questions about the Natami?