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Wojtek P
Poland
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Posts 1597
24 Jan 2011 16:55
| Marcel Verdaasdonk wrote:
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Wojtek but then you cannot fully use the full space of the RAM chips since some address overlap.
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Why? it only depends of controller in FPGA.But board must be planned for it. anyway - isn't 512MB RAM a lot?
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Loïc Dupuy
France
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Posts 253
24 Jan 2011 17:20
| Marcel Verdaasdonk wrote:
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Wojtek but then you cannot fully use the full space of the RAM chips since some address overlap.
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You have to use "bank switching", in the 8-bit era more or less all computers have this feature to go further than 64KiB address space.
EXTERNAL LINK
It's a quick and dirty hack, you loose memory access speed (when in need to bankswitching), you have to carrefull think when and where you access the data.
Since when 64KiB was enough ? :-)
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3975
24 Jan 2011 17:43
| Wojtek it is quite a lot but i prefer a safety net to a brick wall if you know what i mean. Loic your right you could do bank switching but AFAYK has the Amiga needed to use bank switching?
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Christian Kummerow
Germany
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Posts 314
24 Jan 2011 18:00
| Marcel Verdaasdonk wrote:
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roughly at 1.5GB since you still need some free addresses for your peripheral components and chipset.
Anyhow as it currently stands the Natami has more RAM then UAE or win-UAE.
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I can set 1.5GB Z3 Fast, 1.8MB Slowmem, 8 MB Fastmem, 64 MB Motherboard, 64MB Processorslot Mem, 512MB Graficcard Mem and 2 MB ChipMem. I dont tryed all cause i have only 1 GB on this PC but if i can set it, it should work too.
Stefan Sz wrote:
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I think 1 GB is even enough for most XP Systems so it should be by far more than enough for an amigalike system.
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Really? I runned out of Mem with Win2k already, 1 GB Mem, 256 MB Swap. The System is high optimised, any useless Windows stuff is disabled. The only that is required for it is open some 8 Megapixel images in the picture Editing. It keeps the original image in ram, the scaled image and undo steps. Picture editing is a common applicaton.
But the advantage is if i too much annoyed i can plug a 2GB Module in. Now, you dont know what Software will come after the first Boards are selled. After it maybe. Today we have only a "slow" Amiga, developer not even think about to port different soft cause the CPU Power is much to low. Of course some dont care about and port for example OWB, speed useless and fast out of memory with 128MB.
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3975
24 Jan 2011 18:06
| christian i have a linux box here with 16GB RAM so tell me the exact settings so i can try it out in UAE.
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
| | (Moderator)
Posts 5775
24 Jan 2011 19:07
| Wojtek P wrote:
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If anytime more RAM is needed, i would opt for more CHIP-RAM, not more FAST-RAM.
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I think what could make sense is a variable amount of memory in the future.
Lets say you have 512 B.
You divide this in 4 slices each 128 MB - on boot up 1 slice is chipmem, 1 slice is fastmem and 2 slices are any-mem.
This way a GFX heavy 2D game can use about 400 MB for GFX.
Of if you use the NATAMI for compiling etc you can use 400 MB fastmem.
The same option could be done when having 1 GB.
This would then allow:
256 MB CHIP + 768 MB FAST
or 512 MB CHIP + 512 MB FAST.
or 768 MB CHIP + 256 MB FAST.
How does this sound?
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3975
24 Jan 2011 19:20
| gunnar if your give the ability to slice the memory address range in 4 bits with a total of 512MB you need to hack it in 8 for a Gig
or else you might cause compatibility problems.(forward compatibility)This means on 512MB you get 4 piece of 128MB each
on 1Gb you get 8 piece of 128MB each
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SID Hervé
France
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Posts 663
24 Jan 2011 19:26
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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I think what could make sense is a variable amount of memory in the future.
How does this sound?
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I totally agree with this idea.
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Wojtek P
Poland
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Posts 1597
24 Jan 2011 19:35
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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Wojtek P wrote:
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If anytime more RAM is needed, i would opt for more CHIP-RAM, not more FAST-RAM.
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I think what could make sense is a variable amount of memory in the future.
Lets say you have 512 B.
You divide this in 4 slices each 128 MB - on boot up 1 slice is chipmem, 1 slice is fastmem and 2 slices are any-mem.
This way a GFX heavy 2D game can use about 400 MB for GFX.
Of if you use the NATAMI for compiling etc you can use 400 MB fastmem.
The same option could be done when having 1 GB.
This would then allow:
256 MB CHIP + 768 MB FAST
or 512 MB CHIP + 512 MB FAST.
or 768 MB CHIP + 256 MB FAST.
How does this sound?
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quite good :)
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Stefan
Germany
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Posts 75
24 Jan 2011 20:07
| @Gunnar von Boehn
Is that really possible? I thought Chip-RAM and Fast-RAM has different busses? So it is on the new board connected to the same bus?
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Claudio Wieland
Germany
| | (Natami Team)
Posts 703
24 Jan 2011 20:18
| There is only one memory bus. The difference between CHIP and FAST consists in that CHIP-data doesn't get cached in the data cache.
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Cesare Di Mauro
Italy
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Posts 526
24 Jan 2011 20:20
| So the maximum memory bandwidth is 1.6GB/s? :|
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
24 Jan 2011 20:28
| Darek O wrote:
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If MC68020 (released in 1984) would be the first procesor during develop Lorraine project then there will no limit of space memory in AmigaOS and it would be posible to obtain full 4GB adres space for 32-bit systems. |
Yeah, we got burned because the 68020 was much more expensive, another motoscum blunder.Also, OCS could have been 32 bit chips, if it wasn't so expensive at the time to make full 32 bit ones and not 3.5 MHz but 7.12 or even 14 MHz like the 68020 was!!!! AMIGA would have not just been outstanding, but ENORMOUS with these upgrades!
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
24 Jan 2011 20:38
| Is it possible..... To have Chip RAM to 4 GigaBytes, and FAST RAM (controlled by 68050/070) of only 2 GigaBytes???? So, 4 Gigs of RAM on motherboard in total, and ONLY the co-processors can control the upper 2 Gigs (they have access to all 4) and the CPU can use only 2 Gigs RAM???
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Claudio Wieland
Germany
| | (Natami Team)
Posts 703
24 Jan 2011 20:39
| Cesare Di Mauro wrote:
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So the maximum memory bandwidth is 1.6GB/s? :|
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That's the limit with current Cyclone IV in Natami's configuration. Although 1.6GB/sec sounds like not that much, it strongly depends on what you do with it. Right?
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Samuel D Crow
USA
| | (Natami Team)
Posts 1295
24 Jan 2011 20:41
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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Is it possible.....
To have Chip RAM to 4 GigaBytes, and FAST RAM (controlled by 68050/070) of only 2 GigaBytes????
So, 4 Gigs of RAM on motherboard in total, and ONLY the co-processors can control the upper 2 Gigs (they have access to all 4) and the CPU can use only 2 Gigs RAM???
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Nope. The Chip RAM is addressable by the CPU as well as the custom chips. This isn't a PC we're talking about, after all.
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Cesare Di Mauro
Italy
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Posts 526
24 Jan 2011 20:52
| Claudio Wieland wrote:
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Cesare Di Mauro wrote:
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So the maximum memory bandwidth is 1.6GB/s? :|
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That's the limit with current Cyclone IV in Natami's configuration. Although 1.6GB/sec sounds like not that much, it strongly depends on what you do with it. Right? |
Yes, I know.It explains why there's some research on bandwidth saving.
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Cesare Di Mauro
Italy
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Posts 526
24 Jan 2011 20:55
| Samuel D Crow wrote:
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Thierry Atheist wrote:
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Is it possible.....
To have Chip RAM to 4 GigaBytes, and FAST RAM (controlled by 68050/070) of only 2 GigaBytes????
So, 4 Gigs of RAM on motherboard in total, and ONLY the co-processors can control the upper 2 Gigs (they have access to all 4) and the CPU can use only 2 Gigs RAM???
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Nope. The Chip RAM is addressable by the CPU as well as the custom chips. This isn't a PC we're talking about, after all. |
What about the fast ram? Is it (read-only) addressable by the custom chips? It can be fine to put some stuff on fast ram to save chip mem.
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
24 Jan 2011 21:14
| Samuel D Crow wrote:
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Thierry Atheist wrote:
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Is it possible.....To have Chip RAM to 4 GigaBytes, and FAST RAM (controlled by 68050/070) of only 2 GigaBytes???? So, 4 Gigs of RAM on motherboard in total, and ONLY the co-processors can control the upper 2 Gigs (they have access to all 4) and the CPU can use only 2 Gigs RAM???
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Nope. The Chip RAM is addressable by the CPU as well as the custom chips. This isn't a PC we're talking about, after all.
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Hi Samuel, you didn't quite catch on to what I meant.SINCE, AOS can NOT control more than 2 Gigs of RAM, I thought that maybe the CHIP RAM _could_ be controlled, as the co-processors operate differently? So, maybe a full 4 Gigs of RAM is accessible, while the upper 2 Gigs ONLY by the custom chips? I'm reversing the roles of the Chips' abilities here, in a way.
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
24 Jan 2011 21:20
| Let me refine that: Total RAM, 4 Gigs First 1 Gig is CHIP RAM (CPU and custom co-processors have access). Gig 2 is FAST RAM (68050/070 CPU only). Gig 3 and 4 is ONLY accessible by custom co-processors, because AOS limitation is to first 2 Gigs of RAM. Is this possible?
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Do you have questions about the Natami?