| Why Are Internet Modems Still External? | page 1 2 3 4
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
11 Aug 2010 19:40
| They're quite small now, I see, so is it because it's all proprietary? Can/does the NatAmi have a built in 56K Modem option?
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André Jernung
Sweden
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Posts 988
11 Aug 2010 20:04
| Internal modems for dialup connections have been available since the early 90's, probably even earlier. I'm pretty sure there was ISA modems, and I have a couple of PCI modems myself in storage somewhere.
If you need an internal modem, use a PCI card and trick someone to write a driver for you.
But to be honest, why put effort into something that outdated? In my country, even people in the most rural little villages have at least DSL ethernet connections via the phone lines. Is Canada really that bad infrastructure wise?
To answer your question, it does not make sense economically or practically to put an onboard modem in the Natami, and to put effort in writing drivers for PCI modems is unnecessary, since a PPP connection can easily be set up using an external modem via the serial port for the few unlucky people left out there who has no choice but to use a dialup connection.
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
11 Aug 2010 20:12
| I was asking about cable and ADSL modems, if there are internal ones. The second part was that it's way easier to connect 2 computers with a telephone wire than 25 pin or 9 pin cable, and serial and parallel ports aren't "hot pluggable" either. Also, as I said, it's possible to send huge amounts of data through common telephone wire now. How fast can serial ports go, and they have more leads even.
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3976
11 Aug 2010 20:16
| Build in modems died out because the ISP wants to keep things simple for themselfs. Thierry even if there would be a build in modem making a 56k one is like shooting yourself in the foot as a designer.
A modern designer should try and make their work future proof.
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André Jernung
Sweden
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Posts 988
11 Aug 2010 20:21
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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I was asking about cable and ADSL modems, if there are internal ones.
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Then why do you ask for internal 56k? I have yet to see a cable modem or DSL modem called "56k" ;) Yes, there are both cable and DSL modems on PCI cards. Is it worth the effort to write drivers for them? Probably not.
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Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom
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Posts 821
11 Aug 2010 20:33
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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They're quite small now, I see, so is it because it's all proprietary?
Can/does the NatAmi have a built in 56K Modem option?
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They aren't external. modems have been on the PC motherboard since the late 90s. Our PIII/450mhz (early 99) has one.
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
11 Aug 2010 20:35
| I was asking 2 separate questions. One was about old modems, and one about new ones. My point behind the 56K modem linking is that there is very low SW overhead to operate that over USB 1,2 and 3 ports. And heck, 10 to 15 Mega bits per second is possible in common telephone wire, that IS fast, isn't it?
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Richard Maudsley
United Kingdom
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Posts 821
11 Aug 2010 20:43
| Over common telephone wire, yes. Over common telephone networks... Not really. Or atleast not here, where we use 90 year old gpo aluminium wiring hacked into surplus AT&T equipment (yes, wrong side of the atlantic. But it has the Bell logo on it so I'm not arguing). How is the sound quality on your landline? ours is awful.
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
11 Aug 2010 20:52
| I know that telephone infrastructure doesn't permit over 50K, actually, and our regular telephone lines deliver great sound quality. Of course I live in Vancouver, over 2 million people in the region.
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Geir E
Norway
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Posts 104
11 Aug 2010 21:24
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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They're quite small now, I see, so is it because it's all proprietary?
Can/does the NatAmi have a built in 56K Modem option?
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Don't everyone connect to their wireless router by now? Or at least through cable. Unless one is lonesome and poor, one have at least two computers in the household.
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Carl Gustaf Folke Hubert
Sweden
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Posts 35
11 Aug 2010 21:58
| Hello Thierry. You can get 24Mbit ADSL here in Sweden and 16Mbit 3G USB modem dongles. But ADSL is what we in Sweden call "ren jävla skit". I have a 100/100Mbit fiber connection at home. I find that speed pretty acceptable. So I think that anything else than Ethernet is a waste of time and effort.
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Dag Jacobsen
Norway
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Posts 78
11 Aug 2010 23:13
| What ?? 16 mbit 3G ?? Isnt 7 mbit max ? 16 mbit must be 4G ? I didnt think HSDPA HSUPA went higher than 7 mbit or so at best .. Och ADSL e mycket bättre enn single linje ISDN som jag måtte lida med ca 4 år etter analogmodemet.. Og telenor tellerskritt ! To translate , ADSL is a lot better than my 3 or 4 year isdn suffering and before that 28.8 modem :-) Paying by the second to damn Telenor.
But now I have VDSL2 , 30/5 :-) AND what do we have to complain about, Pakistan has 1 meter water pretty much all over the country. Puts things into perspective..
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Wojtek P
Poland
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Posts 1597
12 Aug 2010 00:24
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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They're quite small now, I see, so is it because it's all proprietary?
Can/does the NatAmi have a built in 56K Modem option?
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external phone modems are for free or maybe few$ now, as it's legacy.
no sense to waste time building new.
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Carl Gustaf Folke Hubert
Sweden
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Posts 35
12 Aug 2010 00:42
| Hello Dag.
No. it's something they call "Turbo 3G". I have a dongle from Tele2, but I think Telia and 3 can provide the same speed.Telia started with 4G earlier this year, and I have no idea what the max downspeed will be.
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Mike Sieweke
USA
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Posts 11
12 Aug 2010 06:04
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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They're quite small now, I see, so is it because it's all proprietary?
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It's a simple economic/use equation:
Ethernet = extremely cheap and small hardware
Ethernet = useful for nearly 100% users Cable/DSL modem = relatively expensive compared to Ethernet. The modem has its own CPU and RAM, and it's a fairly complicated system - more code and RAM than the average computer in 1988, plus way more CPU power. A DOCSIS 2.0 cable modem could have a 200 MHz MIPS and 8 MB SDR memory. A DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem has even higher specs.
Cable/DSL modem = useful for (SWAG) 50% users With these cost/use figures, it makes more sense to provide the modem as an external box. Another factor is that your cable or phone company wants you to use only modems approved by them.
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Team Chaos Leader
USA
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Posts 2094
12 Aug 2010 06:42
| Geir E wrote:
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Don't everyone connect to their wireless router by now?
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No.
Or at least through cable.
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No.
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Thomas Richter
Germany
| | (MX-Board Owner)
Posts 1425
12 Aug 2010 07:26
| It's not only that the phone company want users to use their modems - it is also that there are various ways how to get internet at home. There isn't solution where you could built a modem and it work work for everyone. We here in Germany have internet over ADSL, over TV cable, over UMTS and probably a couple of other proprietary solutions. What's all common to them is that you get a modem with a wireless output and/or an RJ45 jack for regular ethernet, that's the common denominator. Adding only a specific type of modem to the hardware means that people *not* using this particular interface are locked out. Standard wired ethernet is really the best solution. Greetings from Stuttgart, Thomas
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
12 Aug 2010 08:10
| hI Mike Sieweke and others, Thank you for the clear and concise answers. Seems that it's a bit messy.... WHEN will we get "standards". I mean, there ALWAYS seems to be some box hanging out there, like it was with the Amiga 500 with it's external power supply. I think the Adam had the right idea, with it's printer built right in. ;-) :-)
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Wojtek P
Poland
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Posts 1597
12 Aug 2010 09:34
| Carl Gustaf Folke Hubert wrote:
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Hello Dag.
No. it's something they call "Turbo 3G". I have a dongle from Tele2, but I think Telia and 3 can provide the same speed.
Telia started with 4G earlier this year, and I have no idea what the max downspeed will be.
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marketed speed and actual speed are completely different things in most ISP offers, and with cellular networks - it's usually 5-10 times difference.
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Wojtek P
Poland
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Posts 1597
12 Aug 2010 09:35
| Team Chaos Leader wrote:
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Geir E wrote:
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Don't everyone connect to their wireless router by now?
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No.
Or at least through cable.
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No.
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Esp. wireless networks is what i always avoid.
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Do you have questions about the Natami?