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Welcome to the Natami / Amiga ForumThis forum is for AMIGA fans interested in the new NATAMI platform.
Please read the forum usage manual.
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 Do you have questions about the Natami?
Post it here and we will answer it!
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| Mixed Planar/chunky Mode, How Does It Work? | page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
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Megol .
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Posts 678
18 Oct 2011 18:21
| Thomas Richter wrote:
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Asaf Ayoub wrote:
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any thoughts on endienness ?
Maybe for future keep endien independent.
EXTERNAL LINK
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The PPC has the ability to access memory in inverse endianness (though by a neat trick), but this feature is only relevant for emulation of non-native endianness enviroments, such as PC emulators. I'm not sure how important that is.
At least the gfx system should, for true color, work in the native endianness, i.e. red in the most signficiant bits, blue in the LSBs.
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PPC doesn't use that trick since the 604 (IIRC), it simply rearranges bits unlike the 603 (again IIRC) where it used address manipulation (which creates other complications elsewhere). For 68k compatibility that type of address manipulation (simple eor of lower bits) wouldn't work anyway, it requires adddress inversion instead.
As long as one don't care of legacy code any field arrangement isn't a problem as long bit-level interleaving isn't used (requires at least an extra logical or for writes). 15/16 bit formats require a bit of manipulation no matter the field positions anyway.
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Slawomir Monka
Poland
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Posts 20
07 Mar 2012 12:30
| Joe M wrote:
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Thomas Hirsch wrote:
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I for my part want to do something on my Natami the rest of the world does not want to do: run Kickstart 3.x.
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I can assure you that you're not the only one. :)
Thomas Hirsch wrote:
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Of course PC graphic cards are "fast". I know that. But display/graphic generation on the Amiga works completely different than on a PC. It is an entirely different philosophy. CGX and P96 are "software adapters" for PC graphic cards into the Amiga. And because those PC graphic cards are really really fast a P96 or CGX graphic display is faster than an original Amiga. But this does not justify making the Natami graphic system compatible to a PC graphics card that it can be adapted by CGX or P96 to the Amiga.
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Only a true Amigan talks like this. I completely agree with what you say here. It seems that far too many people want to have things the "PC" way, and as far as I understand that is not the purpose of this project - thankfully. :)
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I like this too very much. I don't understand most of this topic yet, maybe because of this I still have a question from "my" topic in my mind about NATAMI: What about access to new SAGA futures, what is needed do use/get it ?, new OS libraries, new programing languages like asm,C/new libraries for it, or existing will be OK ? I'm not good on hardware level, I'd like to understand how a new "raw" hardware becomes hardware which can be programmed/used. Thanks
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Jakob Eriksson
Sweden
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Posts 1097
07 Mar 2012 13:18
| Code like you would on an Amiga 1200 and you will be fine. You can code directly for the hardware, or via APIs, does not matter.
Only expect the Natami to be faster.Later, we will announce extensions and how to code for those.
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Slawomir Monka
Poland
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Posts 20
07 Mar 2012 15:00
| Jakob I understood that NATAMI will be compatibile with Amiga on binary level and will be faster. As I wrote : I'd like to understand how a new "raw" hardware becomes hardware which can be programmed/used in general context and of course in context of Natami hardware/futures.
I need to understand the whole programing process, its elements and levels. I hope I'll find help here. Thank you for information about extensions and future howto.
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Jakob Eriksson
Sweden
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Posts 1097
07 Mar 2012 17:36
| Sad to drive you away from this site, but Natami.net may not be the optimal site for learning Amiga programming.
Have a look at EXTERNAL LINK (Ignore Lesson 5 the stuff about AmigaOS4.)
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~johane/dev/intro.html
EXTERNAL LINK
EXTERNAL LINK
And also register at
EXTERNAL LINK and EXTERNAL LINK and check out their programming forums.
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Slawomir Monka
Poland
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Posts 20
07 Mar 2012 22:46
| Jakob Eriksson wrote:
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Sad to drive you away from this site ....
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If sad.. please dont't do this
Jakob Eriksson wrote:
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Natami.net may not be the optimal site for learning Amiga programming.
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Why ? Learning hardware on deep level I am able to better programming. Am I or not ? I'm intrested in learning programming NatAmi. Is this wrong palce ? There are no programers in NatAmi Team or in the Comunity?
Even I'll get no answers to my questions, everything is ok because I asked the question / realized my need.
Thank you for your help.
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Adrian Browne
Ireland
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Posts 172
08 Mar 2012 01:03
| @Slawomir Welcome, I gather there's plenty of programmers in the natami team and community.Apparently programming software as you would for a classic amiga will ensure that the software works on natami too.There's no tutorial section on this site at moment is all.
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3979
08 Mar 2012 05:47
| Slawomir Monka wrote:
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Jakob Eriksson wrote:
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Natami.net may not be the optimal site for learning Amiga programming.
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Why ? Learning hardware on deep level I am able to better programming. Am I or not ? I'm intrested in learning programming NatAmi. Is this wrong palce ? There are no programers in NatAmi Team or in the Comunity?
Even I'll get no answers to my questions, everything is ok because I asked the question / realized my need.
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Learning deeper hardware structures Doesn't mean your can write optimal code for it.
That is still something you need to be a good programmer for. My advice is don't assume anything on timing except for the CIA registers.
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Erik Bauer
Italy
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Posts 301
08 Mar 2012 08:04
| Slawomir Monka wrote:
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I like this too very much.
I don't understand most of this topic yet, maybe because of this I still have a question from "my" topic in my mind about NATAMI:
What about access to new SAGA futures, what is needed do use/get it ?, new OS libraries, new programing languages like asm,C/new libraries for it, or existing will be OK ?
I'm not good on hardware level, I'd like to understand how a new "raw" hardware becomes hardware which can be programmed/used.
Thanks
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Wellcome Slawomir,
I think you're in the right place to ask those things but it's maybe too early to have the answers you're looking for.
As far as I know, NatAmi HW are still being developed and what is planned now might see the light in slightly different way... you know, when things get alive you cannot foresee their exact nature ;)
What your question is in time for, in my opinion, is to setup the ground, both for your mind and for NatAmi developers, for the answers to be given by them and understood by you. So, please have a tour here on the forum, read, ask, interact and prepare yourself for the big day! :)
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Slawomir Monka
Poland
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Posts 20
08 Mar 2012 08:28
| adrian browne wrote:
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@Slawomir Welcome, I gather there's plenty of programmers in the natami team and community.Apparently programming software as you would for a classic amiga will ensure that the software works on natami too. There's no tutorial section on this site at moment is all.
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Welcome Adrian, yes I know this now. Marcel Verdaasdonk wrote:
| | Learning deeper hardware structures Doesn't mean your can write optimal code for it.
That is still something you need to be a good programmer for.
My advice is don't assume anything on timing except for the CIA registers.
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Yes, I see the point, but without this knowing it's also impossible in my opinion, specially I'm intrested in asembler and full knowledge of the computer (NatAmi) at the byte/binary level which in my opinion allows fully control the computer and fully realize its potential. Thank you for your advice, at this moment I can't catch its point yet, but I will be grateful if you point me to the source/book which helps me to understand this (knowledge which stands behind it)
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Jakob Eriksson
Sweden
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Posts 1097
08 Mar 2012 08:35
| Slawomir, of course you can ask here anything you want. But there might other forums, with more active programmers in them which can help you better. And you don't have to wait. Natami has the same kind of chipset, the same OS, the same assembler. Imagine those who coded for Amiga before Amiga was created. They had to write code on SUN workstations, then run it in simulators, where one second took maybe one day execute. You are in a much better situation, you have UAE and real Amigas. Learn to program for Amiga and you know how to program for Natami.
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Slawomir Monka
Poland
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Posts 20
08 Mar 2012 08:38
| Erik Bauer wrote:
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Wellcome Slawomir,
I think you're in the right place to ask those things but it's maybe too early to have the answers you're looking for.
As far as I know, NatAmi HW are still being developed and what is planned now might see the light in slightly different way... you know, when things get alive you cannot foresee their exact nature ;)
What your question is in time for, in my opinion, is to setup the ground, both for your mind and for NatAmi developers, for the answers to be given by them and understood by you.
So, please have a tour here on the forum, read, ask, interact and prepare yourself for the big day! :)
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Welcome Erik, and thank you very much.
Yes I setup ground (necessary knowledge/understanding ) for my mind. I have a lot of setup, a lot of fun :), I start from beginning. Thank you once again for your kind understandig.
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Slawomir Monka
Poland
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Posts 20
08 Mar 2012 08:52
| Jakob Eriksson wrote:
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Slawomir, of course you can ask here anything you want. But there might other forums, with more active programmers in them which can help you better. And you don't have to wait.
Natami has the same kind of chipset, the same OS, the same assembler. Imagine those who coded for Amiga before Amiga was created. They had to write code on SUN workstations, then run it in simulators, where one second took maybe one day execute. You are in a much better situation, you have UAE and real Amigas. Learn to program for Amiga and you know how to program for Natami.
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Thank you Jakob, I'm open to many sources.
I can imagine this, It's amazing for me, I have deep admiration for these people, for their passion and intelligence. Your advise is very good and true, but please understand me, my desire to know Natami as quickly and deeply as I can/ It's possible/ It's possible for me.
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Erik Bauer
Italy
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Posts 301
08 Mar 2012 09:27
| Slawomir Monka wrote:
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Welcome Erik, and thank you very much.
Yes I setup ground (necessary knowledge/understanding ) for my mind. I have a lot of setup, a lot of fun :), I start from beginning. Thank you once again for your kind understandig.
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Thanks to you. It's very nice to interact with somebody that sees world and life as I see them. And your enthusiasm is teaching me something :)
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Slawomir Monka
Poland
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Posts 20
08 Mar 2012 10:05
| Erik Bauer wrote:
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Thanks to you. It's very nice to interact with somebody that sees world and life as I see them. And your enthusiasm is teaching me something :)
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How nice :) I'm in the process of recovering my natural passion, my natural enthusiasm, natural flow of Life. It's like being born again :)
Have a nice day to All :)
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