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Welcome to the Natami / Amiga ForumThis forum is for AMIGA fans interested in the new NATAMI platform.
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The team will post updates and news here |
| NATAMI Day #21 | page 1 2 3 4 5
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Joe M Norway
| | Posts 500 03 Jun 2011 16:56
| Ian Berry wrote:
| Hi, their are some special cd`s called CD100, CD200, CD444 & CD888 these contain games like whdload games that have a special menu to choose game and boot on a cd32 or cd drive attached to your Amiga A1200.
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OK, cool. I didn't know about these.
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Joe M Norway
| | Posts 500 03 Jun 2011 17:08
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
| Bad idea. CF cards are the "Mercedes Benz" among the normal Flash devices. SD cards are the "Fiat Panda" quality.
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I have no doubt that CF cards are of a higher quality than SD cards but to me sometimes it seems there are weird compatibility issues. My experience is that these issues aren't as common with SD cards. Don't ask me why.Are there really so many different methods to produce a CF card? Aren't the manufacturers following the same "standard"?
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Thomas Clarke United Kingdom
| | Posts 286 04 Jun 2011 12:55
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
| Joe M wrote:
| I really wonder why there is so much fuzz with different CF cards. I don't think the problem is as prevalent with SD cards. r however, works like a charm. |
Bad idea. CF cards are the "Mercedes Benz" among the normal Flash devices. SD cards are the "Fiat Panda" quality. |
When it comes to comparing flash devices, you've got three metrics it makes sense to track: build quality, performance and price. Build quality varies across SD cards as it does for CF cards. It's mostly a matter of getting what you pay for, if you buy cheap knock-off SD cards then expect a poor experience, if you buy premium SD cards like something from the SanDisk Ultra series then build quality issues are going to be far less common. As for performance, current top standard for CompactFlash is CF5.0, current top standard for SD is SD 3.0. Top transfer rate for CompactFlash 5.0 is 300MB/s, attainable if you use the non-standard CFast configuration. CompactFlash 5.0 with CFast is faster than SD 3.0, however it won't be for long, SD 4.0 devices are expected to launch next year. Top transfer rate for SD 4.0 is 312MB/s, attainable in standard configuration: EXTERNAL LINK Currently, SDXC cards are about as expensive as CompactFlash cards, but that's only because they're reaching a small niche of users, when SDXC takes over from SDHC expect prices to plummet. Whilst CF devices do have some nice features like wear levelling as standard, I don't think you can dismiss SD cards in the way you have. SD is rapidly catching up with CompactFlash performance, and being the mass-market choice helps drive down prices. Do you at least accept that SDXC will be more likely to offer the better price/performance ratio in a couple of years?
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Kyle Osborne USA
| | Posts 12 05 Jun 2011 04:15
| From my understanding, CF cards have a built-in IDE interface, and SD cards don't. I have to wonder if it's the IDE interface not being just right in the CF cards, while your adapter for SD cards is getting it right. But hey, I'm quite the novice on all this.
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Tito Amigang France
| | (Natami Team) Posts 29 06 Jun 2011 11:40
| @gunnar: do you have tested the HD dump file ? @others who's contact me for this dump file : yes it's possible, but before i have to remove my whdload key of this dump. be patient please. thanks
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Joe M Norway
| | Posts 500 07 Jun 2011 08:26
| Kyle Osborne wrote:
| From my understanding, CF cards have a built-in IDE interface, and SD cards don't. I have to wonder if it's the IDE interface not being just right in the CF cards, while your adapter for SD cards is getting it right. But hey, I'm quite the novice on all this.
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I think you're right. Let's hope Gunnar & Co are able to find out which types of cards that match the Natami perfectly. It's incredibly frustrating when things do not work as expected. I don't think price (or brand) matters when it comes to compatibility and functionality - so perhaps it's better to drive a Fiat Panda after all. ;)
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Bernd Afa Germany
| | Posts 161 09 Jun 2011 13:01
| All the time nothing special is show, all can do with a free minimig core with AGA too.no video about speed can see. in the last years in amiga land was lots vapour announce great but when see when its available it either not come or it is a better than nothing solution. so amiga users are lots tired of all of that. And as can see in the forum there was told years ago about 3D demos that only natami can do so wy you not show something of this, only natami can do ?.whats problem about that ? best is a video of this
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Peter K. Germany
| | (MX-Board Owner) Posts 439 09 Jun 2011 13:40
| bernd afa wrote:
| All the time nothing special is show, all can do with a free minimig core with AGA too.no video about speed can see. |
Bernd, Did you by chance miss the newest performance preview? The crown of the fastest 68060 system is won by the Natami - and this even with a not wholly optimized system. One reason we don't publish much more benchmarks and videos IS, that it will be faster in the near future, but still the first impression is the most important one!
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Wawa Tk Germany
| | Posts 581 09 Jun 2011 14:14
| Peter K. wrote:
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bernd afa wrote:
| All the time nothing special is show, all can do with a free minimig core with AGA too.no video about speed can see. |
Bernd, Did you by chance miss the newest performance preview? The crown of the fastest 68060 system is won by the Natami - and this even with a not wholly optimized system. One reason we don't publish much more benchmarks and videos IS, that it will be faster in the near future, but still the first impression is the most important one!
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i dont think so. in particular in this context. the sort of public here is eager to observe tweaking, development and improvements being done. anyway it has been already half a way supplied with such informations then and again, so why not go any futher?in fact i suspect the published screenshots of 3d engine to be some sort of hoax, i do not care much at this point though. perhaps it really would be easier to use a 3d pci gfx board in natami for productivity given existing drivers (aos and aros)rather than creating custom core. there is automatic monitor switching solutions already available but it is up to the devs, certainly.
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Gunnar von Boehn Germany
| | (Moderator) Posts 5775 09 Jun 2011 14:43
| wawa tk wrote:
| in fact i suspect the published screenshots of 3d engine to be some sort of hoax, |
Thanks for the insult! To be honest insulting people here is not the best way to make new friends and motivate us to post here anything. You probably did not mean it this bad but its annoying that whenever you try to do something new in the AMIGA scene people will call you a lier or fake. Bernd Meyer is a good example for this. Some time ago is was discussed that 68K CPU can reach the same memory performance as PPC systems. Bernd claimed in relative insulting manner that this was not possible at all. Bernd basically accused us that why lie. Bernd gave lots of semi-technical examples, true or not true, including claims that MOVE16 is always the fastest to copy memory on 68K - to explain why an 68K can not do what we said. It does not really matter who is right or wrong here. (We were right) It does not really matter that you can copy memory a lot faster with MOVE.L then with MOVE16 under certain conditions. It does not really matter that we always were right and that the 68060 has in fact no problem to outrun an Pegasos G3, Efika or AmigaOne G3 in a number of CPU based memory benchmarks. What is annoying is that people in the AMIGA these call you a lier if you do something new. And look how Bernd continued this. As soon as we posted some screenshot of the NATAMI outrunning PPC Systems in memory performance - Bernd wrote claims about that the benchmark program might be "wrong compiled" to produce too high numbers. So why did he claim this? Bernd continued with posting semi-technical details. And he also wrote that those numbers will only be correct if the screenmode runs in 29KHz frequency, and he claimed that such modes would not be visible on LCD. All bullshit - as everybody knows AMIGA Productivity is a 29KHz screenmode. And we run this mode all the time on our monitor. Why do people behave like this?
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André Jernung Sweden
| | (MX-Board Owner) Posts 988 09 Jun 2011 16:12
| wawa tk wrote:
| in fact i suspect the published screenshots of 3d engine to be some sort of hoax, i do not care much at this point though.
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If you do believe it is a hoax, why do you not try the 3D core simulation executable that the screenshots were taken from yourself? The binary was posted on this forum and we invited everyone to try it out themselves on their computers. This was a long time ago, and has been available all the time. CLICK HERE The actual 3D core FPGA load is not finished for system implementation yet. I thought this would be obvious to someone spending as much time at these forums as you do. @all This is a time of getting very basic stuff working fully on the new motherboard, if it is not obvious by all the material released. This includes getting things like the CPU card, memory performance, etc. tweaked to a level where we are satisfied, and then moving on to the next thing. Considering the amount of complaints we get, one would think that it would be better not showing anything. But then we get accused of vapourware instead.
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Lion 75 Denmark
| | Posts 32 09 Jun 2011 16:13
| Cheer up, Gunnar. The best way is to get the system completed, optimized, and get the nessecary drivers written. When that's done, the doubters and the individuals who criticize the developers, will most likely be silenced. Speaking of the 3d core, i must admit that i myself still am a bit sceptic, but i really hope you guys pull it off. I would love to see a pure 68k next-gen amiga with integrated, hardware accelerated 3d graphics capable of openGL and hardware-filtered textures. Don't let any negative comments ruin the mood :o)
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Carsten Roth Germany
| | Posts 39 09 Jun 2011 16:17
| What the technical details concerned, I have little idea, but it is often a widespreaded phenomenon that some people are simply resistant to other opinions, even if they do so well documented. Perhaps it is their world view, they have shown all the facts and do not want to see proof shaken.
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Lord Aga
| | Posts 129 09 Jun 2011 16:50
| That very well may be the truth Carsten. But why are they even here then ? If someone doesn't believe in the NatAmi project, thinks everything is a lie, a hoax, or some Gunnar's fairytale :), why does he spend his time following something he thinks is nonsense ? Things are easy and obvious for us who believe though :) But for those who don't...
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Geir E Norway
| | Posts 104 09 Jun 2011 17:25
| André Jernung wrote:
| This is a time of getting very basic stuff working fully on the new motherboard, if it is not obvious by all the material released. This includes getting things like the CPU card, memory performance, etc. tweaked to a level where we are satisfied, and then moving on to the next thing. Considering the amount of complaints we get, one would think that it would be better not showing anything. But then we get accused of vapourware instead.
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Please continue with your display, and try overlook the people for whom boosting their ego is more important than actual accomplishments. The 3d core is one of the elements I'm looking forward to the most. Your (the team) is doing an amazing job. :)
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Sascha W USA
| | Posts 4 09 Jun 2011 18:39
| I have been following the Natami development for some time, but this amigaworld.net type background noise is really annoying. Please, if you don't like this project, or just don't care, keep this stuff on AWN. This forum should be for Amiga enthusiasts! Thanks to everyone who works on this project! It's really exciting to see every bit of it happening! I feel like being 18 again every time there is any news! Good stuff!
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Carsten Roth Germany
| | Posts 39 09 Jun 2011 18:41
| Lord Aga wrote:
| That very well may be the truth Carsten. But why are they even here then ? If someone doesn't believe in the NatAmi project, thinks everything is a lie, a hoax, or some Gunnar's fairytale :), why does he spend his time following something he thinks is nonsense ? Things are easy and obvious for us who believe though :) But for those who don't...
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The reasons why such people, despite their reservations, follow the development here has probably different causes. An important reason for such behave would be the history of the Amiga, a story of missed opportunities, a revolutionary computer system at his time far and ultimately advanced but failed. It is the frustation of these people about it, that there are still enthusiasts, which may not want to give up an outdated concept .
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Matt Hey USA
| | Posts 734 09 Jun 2011 20:11
| I don't think anyone wants to see the Natami succeed more than wawa. We have learned to be skeptical on one hand and yet we want to believe and see solid proof on the other. I have been accused of being a Natami fanboy on EAB (actually 2x by TheCyberDruid) in PMs and threads like this... EXTERNAL LINK yet hear some of us are skeptical enough that we are non-believers. We still want the Natami and Amiga to succeed and move forward. We recognize what a huge project the Natami is too. The work done is fantastic but then we realize that what looks like small simple parts are missing which holds the project back. It could take years for all the software support to be written and stable. We still want it despite the high price though. I think that says a lot. Keep up the hard work (and updates) and we'll try a little harder to keep the faith ;)
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Wawa Tk Germany
| | Posts 581 10 Jun 2011 02:13
| uhmm.. now guys, grow some skin. no offence meant on my part, but starting to divide the public in good believers and evil naysayers reminds me a little about some other "amiga" communities where you are not allowed to doubt a fart. not a cool tendence in my opinion. also i dont quite believe in umisef evil intention. sure he has an own agenda, but except of that, as matt already said many of us have grown a little sceptical over the time. especially those who tried to help to push the platform a little further i believe. 3d core emulation as proof of concept is one thing and an actually working implementation another. as i posted above it doesnt matter for me so much at the moment. first things first. get the dev boards out in the wild and let the people contribute.
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André Jernung Sweden
| | (MX-Board Owner) Posts 988 10 Jun 2011 07:07
| wawa tk wrote:
| 3d core emulation as proof of concept is one thing and an actually working implementation another. as i posted above it doesnt matter for me so much at the moment.
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Yes indeed. And we haven't claimed otherwise. But you talked about the _screenshots_, which clearly demonstrated that you didn't even know what the screenshots were depicting, even though it has been publicly announced and available for everyone to try out. :) And where have we announced that the 3D core is running on our system and ready to be shown accessed from AmigaOS, which you imply we should do in our teaser posts? All graphical circuit design go with simulation. You don't just design blindly without getting any visual feedback. This is also true for the development of the 3D core. The 3D core isn't getting much focus at the moment. Basic functionality has a lot more priority at this stage.
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