Bernie got the sources of Minibench - and it was clear from the sources that we were trying out a few new things.
Therefore the documentation mismatched the program. The documentation said we use CIA-A timer, but the program did infact use CIA-B.

How would you have react on this?

A) Would you ignore the documentation mismatch knowing that the code is in development right now anyway.

B) Would you offer help to correct the documentation, or offer help to improve the printout?

C) Would you start a thread on Moobunny stating that all tests are wrong as the documentation does not match the latest code version?

This topic has been created to respond to a specific demand and does not need to be complicated by some off-topic moods. The reading of this thread would gain in clarity if the problem is moved elsewhere.

Have a nice day.

look at your pictures section. the early (first) screenshots published by gunnar, quite some time before you joined. where the 3d conteent is surrounded by intuition window frame. doesnt it suggest 3d core runs already within amiga os?? so where the intuition window come from otherwise? i mean at that time it was a major eye catcher in favour of natami. and it was never openly admitted that it is just a concept photoshop job. i think such advertising hurts more than it helps.

All graphical circuit design go with simulation. You don't just design blindly without getting any visual feedback. This is also true for the development of the 3D core.   The 3D core isn't getting much focus at the moment. Basic functionality has a lot more priority at this stage.

sure. i dont doubt that.

Maybe because the Demos where not done in Photoshop, but ran fine on AMIGA OS!

There were several levels of 3D demos done on AMIGA/NATAMI.

If you go down the picture section then you will see an AMIGA Zorro card with SRAM and an FPGA. This FPGA card is a prototype of a Graphicscard which we build quite some time ago. This FGPA card was already able to do 3D texture mapping inside the FPGA.
 
The NATAMI 3D core is an evolution of what the Zorro FPGA/GFX could do we already on AMIGA.

To test out further ideas and enhancements we did build a software emulator of the functions which we have developed inside the FPGA card before.

This software emulator done by us for the FPGA functions runs both on AMIGA and on Windows.

Yes this is correct.
But I did not do the card alone.
Bene did it together with me. Bene is knowntfor developing various AMIGA equipment, like for example the DMA based AMIGA_Link network adapters.

It this time we feared that there is no market for new Amiga GFX cards. Bene did continue to use some of the GFX card ideas for some Coldfire based industry systems he did develop. We are now reusing or evolving some ideas for the AMIGA/NATAMI again.

Maybe there would have been a market for an AMIGA GFX card back in those days, I don't know.

Anyway now its to late to market those but we have the NATAMI now.
Right now we focus on different areas in the NATAMI.
Our focus is today was for some days to get the most the 68060 cards - and we are still not at the end.
Give us a little more time and all will start working together in the NATAMI and we will be able to show all the 3D demos on the NATAMI and we will certainly also find the needed time to create some videos. We have not forgotten this but doing this right needs equipment and time.

The team needs to focus on the stuff that really matters :)
When Natami is finished users can make movie's them selves and post them on youtube or whatever :-P

Team should not have to prove anything on a forum. Period.
This forum should be for discussion. I throuroughly enjoy the updates.  I love that Gunnar has posted some benchmarks.  And it is alright that their be discussion of those benchmarks, but there should be no insulting language, and The team doesn't have to put video's out to Prove that their Software/hardware actually works!!!

Proof will be when they have there design finished and boards ready for developers.  That should be the only thing that matters to them and to us.  The rest of this at this point is only information, ideas, and possibilities. 

@Team - keep up the good work!!

@Skeptics - relax a little, right now none of us have Natami's in our hands to test compare etc... please show patience and restraint when posting.  Have Courtesy.

Already you have 3-30 times faster 68k Amiga (depending if it's CPU or the rest) than ever made. And this is PROTOTYPE.

The first shipping model with 133MHz 68060, 4MB L2 cache, and 512 MB total DRAM, being 3-100 times faster in CPU, I/O and chipset,
plus 3D accellerator comparable or better than ANY available 3D cards for Amiga. Actually much faster, without terrible latencies when accessed through amiga bus and PCI bridge.

Add to this excellent software that already flies on 68030 and AGA.

This is great and will be better.
It's truly great work. Actually far better and more advanced than firebee, except firebee have faster CPU.

Do not let the naysayers bring down your mood for tinkering with intermediate developpement benchmarks.

NATAMI project is not simple or short, it needs time for maturation, and you have the will and the means to do it.

I do not care if it takes a few month more to complete, but at the end, all the naysayers will have to bend in front of you and the facts (NATAMI will be the fastest 68K Amiga by a large gap).

I'm sure that the majority of this forum readers knows that you do not do it to have the "biggest", but because you want to revive Amiga, you have no reasons to be arrogant or lie to  all your "fans".

Keep going, we are sure that you will succeed.

Please Do Not:

Question, slander, libel, insult, sidetrack, harass, or attempt to minimalize or marginalize the importance of Mr. Gunnar von Boehn, in any way. The man is a Top-Notch Engineer & Computer Scientist, and without all of his hard work & dedication we would not have a Powerful New Amiga to look forward to. At all. Ever. Remember that.

Attempts to promote fear, uncertainty, and/or doubt, regardless of agenda, of The Natami, it's technology, and the individuals responsible, have gotten really old & cliché. Just cease doing it, it only adds to the development time.

In general, the entire concept of "Amiga Vaporware" is hackneyed, promoted by enemies of progress, who have gotten so used to failure that they actively promote failure. The Amiga DID NOT FAIL, it was just not actively $upported by the failed company behind it, and though we tried, we DID NOT TRY HARD ENOUGH to maintain our platform of choice.

Until now. The Natami represents A New Beginning, and Another Chance. Please do your best, to do your duty, to make the Natami widely recognized as the "New, New Thing", and the successor to the Amiga Heritage.

Friends of the Natami can help, not by sidetracking engineers, but instead, by changing the subject, whenever the subject of a conversation turns to an i-anything. To do this, widely, is to do your part, for the good of the Amiga, for the good of Natami.

If you all do your part, the system that you love & cherish will return & flourish. That is your mission. 

Good day.

for the record: from what i have seen most time gunnar irreversibly lost on this site was correcting absurde requests or opinions of fanboys rather than naysayers, although there were some insistant doubters i myself wouldnt have paid so much attention to. this time and effort would be better invested in some demo videos or the like, but whatever. as for me, i only rarely post a comment. you can hardly blame me for distracting the devs.

Let's return to the main point here and i think it is already given.
Natami is several factors faster, i am saying factors since it are several magnitudes faster as the classics.
It has his strengths and weaknesses.

But overall it's plain faster.

Good healthy discussion might point out places where this should be improved, which test tell too if you can read the statistics.

asking for something the team already needs to do is fine, demanding however is not.
Keep that in mind people!

Pointless arbiter, Marcel.

Besides there are far more useful ways to waste time like playing one's favorite game on a system it runs upon.(no matter which system that might be)

Good point, Wawa Tk! And thank you for your contribution in AROS 68k testing! :)

Cheers