| NATAMI MX Day #12 | page 1 2 3 4 5 6
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3976
11 May 2011 19:15
| Nice idea Asaf but AFAIK IDE doesn't like being hot-swapped.
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Samuel D Crow
USA
| | (Natami Team)
Posts 1295
11 May 2011 19:18
| Asaf Ayoub wrote:
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Nice, with this kind of configuration, we can modify a RAD: disk and create a RAH: (Recoverable Amiga Harddrive) partition so a Workbench harddrive image can be kept in a special memory area for super fast instant access to Workbench - even after restart.
cool bananas !
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Technically, according to some Workbench 1.3 vintage docs, setting the number of cylinders on a RAD device's mount settings is supposed to be able to make a RAD device of any capacity. It's a pity Commodore never implemented that feature. Fortunately there are replacement recoverable ramdisks on the Aminet. EXTERNAL LINK @thread
My opinion is that a cache with lock-in would be the best mix. If there's anything that can be learned from the Cell processor, it's that local-store is a pain to work with. Caches are better but tend to thrash on occasion. Lock in allows the software to place cache hints in the code to allow main loops to be stored in the cache and kept there even when multitasking. Giving the task scheduler a lock-in on the cache would make multitasking less overhead-laden.
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Geir E
Norway
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Posts 104
11 May 2011 19:26
| Lord Aga wrote:
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Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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I don't want to run Linux.
Most real AMIGA fans will think like me.
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You bet we do ! :)
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If someone buys the NatAmi to run linux, that person needs his head examined. Not that it is anything wrong with linux, but there are far cheaper, more versitale and more powerful ways to run it.
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André Jernung
Sweden
| | (MX-Board Owner)
Posts 988
11 May 2011 19:45
| Geir E wrote:
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If someone buys the NatAmi to run linux, that person needs his head examined. Not that it is anything wrong with linux, but there are far cheaper, more versitale and more powerful ways to run it.
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Debian-m68k is getting resurrected, and Natami is most likely the fastest platform for that port by far. I am not interested personally, but do not underestimate the enthusiasts out there.
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
11 May 2011 20:09
| Samuel D Crow wrote:
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Technically, according to some Workbench 1.3 vintage docs, setting the number of cylinders on a RAD device's mount settings is supposed to be able to make a RAD device of any capacity. It's a pity Commodore never implemented that feature.
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Hi Samuel,What? I don't understand. I use AOS1.3 and the RAD: can be made any size to available memory. But of course leave 3 or more megs free if you want to use the computer. ;-) I think it was change highcyl value. Lowcyl is 0 (zero) and highcyl is an odd number (use even amounts). 79 was exactly equal to an 880 K floppy disk. I used to make 3, 4 and 5 floppy disk sized RAD:'s (239, 319, and 399) and load entire games into RAD: and then, sometimes reboot, to run them..... FAST! There's a way to make 2 and more I think. Not sure if I succeeded doing that ever. I found RRD:, on the coverdisk of AUI magazine I think, which allowed for up to 16 RAD:'s as well as, when the RRD: (a RAD:) was'nt full, that memory was NOT USED. So, if you had 3 RRD:'s of 1 floppy disk size each, they only used up the amount of RAM that was in them, and if you erased files in them, they released the RAM back to AOS!!!! I love the RAM: and RAD: disks, and frankly, they are NOT AVAILABLE ON ANY OTHER SYSTEMS!!!!!!!! I was hoping for a NatAmi of 1 Gig RAM so that a RAD: of 640/680 Megs could be made prior to feed making a CDR. That way if you compress files (or not), you can see if it all fits in the space of a CD before making it. The software for making CDRs on windows is so haphazard.... JUNK!
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
11 May 2011 20:15
| With GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT I found out that AOS4.0 only supports a 40 Megabyte RAD: making it impossible to copy the whole OS over to it and rebooting from RAD:. I have 2 Gigs in my A1 XE and can't reboot from RAD: :-(((((
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Lord Aga
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Posts 129
11 May 2011 20:33
| Oh, sorry, I see many people misunderstood my post :D
Gunnar said that he didn't want to run Linux, and that most Amiga users would think like him. I agreed with him, as in: "you bet we DO think like you" :)
I have never ran Linux in my life, and I don't intend to. I'm here just for the Amiga ride :)
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Marcel Verdaasdonk
Netherlands
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Posts 3976
11 May 2011 20:58
| Thiery i know it's not your cup of tea but linux has RAM disks you can use just like in the amiga.
To be honest AOS and Unix are close relatives basically There are just a few distinct differences.
They offer similar features, and to be honest if CAOS would have been fully developed it would be that much closer.(no point whining over spilled milk here.)I think Gunnar would agree to this point.
But due to that they are close enough to port utilities and other helpful software gives less drive to actually make use of a full linux or unix for that matter. As for the SRAM on the CPU board i think the most feasible format would be 1MB fast, 1MB Kickstart+Cache OS, 2MB Software cache.
I know it can be done in such a matter since IIRC the ROM image is 512KB plus patches will not raise it that much and thuse would leave room for some libs, besides Fast RAM IMHO is nothing more then a form of cache. ;)
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Michael Ward
USA
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Posts 234
11 May 2011 22:02
| I have finally caught up with the many 'testing' posts regarding the new board. In sum, well done Thomas and Natami Team. I would say the many excellent results were well worth the wait. The features and flexibility of this board are impressive. I appreciate the many recent demonstration postings. They are showing the capabilities of things quite well. Thank you for posting them. Natami is by far the best native Amiga ever made.
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Asaf Ayoub
United Kingdom
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Posts 332
11 May 2011 22:03
| I am guessing 1MB for AROS would be the minimum as later, users will want to cram more things in, in the future. Just thinking what I could do with a multi- RAD booting system - can I run all the same time ? Switch between multiple AmigaOS running like screen switch - AmigaOS switch... now drag'n'drop between them ... ehm .. im going nuts..
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Samuel D Crow
USA
| | (Natami Team)
Posts 1295
11 May 2011 22:27
| Asaf Ayoub wrote:
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Just thinking what I could do with a multi- RAD booting system - can I run all the same time ?
Switch between multiple AmigaOS running like screen switch - AmigaOS switch...
now drag'n'drop between them ... ehm .. im going nuts..
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I'm afraid your plan is going nuts already. You can switch between OS instances during warm boots using the Early Startup menu. It's not that fast to boot from RAM though because the CPU still has to crunch through all of the files to boot.
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Ayodele Stephenson
USA
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Posts 83
11 May 2011 23:54
| Mode 2 gets my vote. always loved the Idea of putting the most used parts of the operating system in a cache next to the cpu... even before I knew about the amiga I was a fan of tsr's and Himem on the pc. just makes good sense. (not that pc memory ever made the best sence. 640k barrier?? lol)
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Alex Quartex
Italy
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Posts 6
12 May 2011 06:35
| >Hi,
> it will possible to use the 2 cpus (68060 and FPGA emulated) in >the same time / program ?
>Samuel wrote:
>That's the intent, although it won't be symmetric multiprocessing vlike Linux/Mac/Windows uses.
Why not ?
I understand if you give me reason like cache coherency, etc but NOT all have "cache" or DMA access like simple crunching numbers (only to start)! I understand that FPGA is more quickly on do that but using a proxys for some isolate function with a switch will be a real multicore / multiprocess system like original Amiga.
Will be possible to have another FPGA instead '60 ?
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Jakob Eriksson
Sweden
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Posts 1097
12 May 2011 09:57
| Another FPGA instead of 68060? Yes, but that would probably come from a 3rd party developer, not us.
Symmetric MultiProcessing, SMP, will not come, because SMP does not go well with AmigaOS/AROS design, not because of any cache issues.
SMP is in fact though, inferior in many situations and is a suboptimal solution even on a lot of PC hardware. The Cell processor in PS3 is an example of non-SMP multiprocessing, just as an example of how multiprocessing can work without SMP, not as an example of something particularly like a Natami with several processors.
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Gunnar von Boehn
Germany
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Posts 5775
12 May 2011 10:42
| Jakob Eriksson wrote:
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Another FPGA instead of 68060? Yes, but that would probably come from a 3rd party developer, not us.
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I would not rule out any options now. If there is a market then why not.
If people give me money for it I will even glue marshmallows to CPU cards if they want to buy this. The 68060 CPU card actually does not only contain the 68060 but also it contains an FPGA.
So we are actually already offering an FPGA on a expansion card.
And you can buy it by buying the 68060 CPU card. The FPGA on the 060-CPU card is not huge - its smaller than the one on the NATAMI mainboard.
But its bigger than the FPGA on the MiniMig! ;-D If people want FPGA on cards we could easily make a new version of the card with a much bigger FPGA too.
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Andrew / Grg
Poland
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Posts 15
12 May 2011 11:35
| | It's not that fast to boot from RAM though because the CPU still has to crunch through all of the files to boot. |
When it comes to initialize and mount external devices it will be even slower and no RAD: like instances can help there.
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Geir E
Norway
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Posts 104
13 May 2011 08:59
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
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The 68060 CPU card actually does not only contain the 68060 but also it contains an FPGA.
So we are actually already offering an FPGA on a expansion card.
And you can buy it by buying the 68060 CPU card.
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What is the purpose of the FPGA on the cpu boards? To interface the 060 with the natami, or is it just there for future use like for a fancy new co-processor?
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Jakob Eriksson
Sweden
| | (Moderator)
Posts 1097
13 May 2011 10:10
| It is an interface between the 68060 and the SyncZorro bus. (And maybe other things.)
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Thierry Atheist
Canada
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Posts 1828
13 May 2011 12:29
| Ayodele Stephenson wrote:
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Mode 2 gets my vote. always loved the Idea of putting the most used parts of the operating system in a cache next to the cpu... even before I knew about the amiga I was a fan of tsr's and Himem on the pc. just makes good sense. (not that pc memory ever made the best sence. 640k barrier?? lol) |
TSRs, hehehe!!!!AD&D of TSR and the 8088 ms-dos-not TSRs... I remember a friend squeezing those in, first below the first 640K then between 640K and the 1 Meg RAM segments, hehehe!!!! Hi Ayodele, AOS spoils us so. There's RAM: and RAD: and even the "resident" command too!!! And now this gem!!!!!!! I look forward to it being in the L1 cache someday.... soon!
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Wojtek P
Poland
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Posts 1597
13 May 2011 12:54
| Thierry Atheist wrote:
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I love the RAM: and RAD: disks, and frankly, they are NOT AVAILABLE ON ANY OTHER SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!
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Not true.
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