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Surprise: AmigaOS 4.1 for PowerPCpage  1 2 
Olaf Schoenweiss
Germany

Posts 782
17 Sep 2008 15:02


There are surprising news regarding Hyperion and AmigaOS

Amiga-News:
EXTERNAL LINK  German

EXTERNAL LINK  English

What do you think of it? I was a little surprised about it


Michael Borrmann
Germany

Posts 38
17 Sep 2008 15:49


Olaf Schoenweiss wrote:

  There are surprising news regarding Hyperion and AmigaOS
 
  Amiga-News:
  EXTERNAL LINK    German
 
  EXTERNAL LINK    English
 
  What do you think of it? I was a little surprised about it
 
 

 
Finally...
It's definitely a good thing for the Amigacommunity on short terms, and I hope what little is left of Amiga Inc will fall more into oblivion now.
I wonder how many people are left who will buy this, and if this will mean a little renaissance for the OS4 guys, who were waiting to get some hardware to run it on.
Actually quite difficult to make any predictions how this will affect the whole Amiga scene. I guess I will just wait and see.
 
Interesting, so many years the Amiga world was just depressing (i just occasionally watched some websites for updates, and after a few minutes of browsing i just got sad, and left again ;) ), and look now how many things happened in the last 12 months hardwarewise: MorphOs2 running on Efika for the M-OS crowd, MiniMig for the Amiga500 crowd, and now OS4 running on new Hardware (Sam440). Add (hopefully) Natami to that over the next few months, and I would say, the future doesn't look to dark anymore :)

It's a good time to return to the Amiga Scene..



Samuel D Crow
USA
(Natami Team)
Posts 1295
17 Sep 2008 17:05


The massive improvements to MiniGL should make a big difference for OS 4.1 not to mention the new MiniGL-based compositing for hardware accelerated Cairo graphics for better 2d capabilities.  I just hope that the lawsuit ends soon.
 
Now I just hope that somebody has the sense to port LLVM to the Amiga so that Mesa will support shader emulation on the older systems.  (It would also save me a lot of work since I'm working on a compiler that uses LLVM.  ;-) )

Joel Cholakians
USA

Posts 67
17 Sep 2008 20:16


NatAmi will succeed.  Sam440 EP will do well also.

I want to advertise NatAmi and various Amiga products on a number of websites that I have partnerships with.

Catch:
1) I need GIF adverts in various sizes
2) I need Animated GIF's in various sizes
etc..

These should promote FPGA Development (NataAmi, MiniMig), Sam440ep, OS4.x / Amiga.

Any artists willing to help the Amiga Cause?

Laust Palbo Nielsen
Denmark

Posts 47
17 Sep 2008 20:48


What do you have in mind? An awareness campaign or a sales pitch? And who should it be targeted to?

I might be willing to help, but advertising the Natami before the consumer version is on the horizon is not a good idea in my opinion.

Getting people's hopes up prematurely might not be a positive thing.



Fahed Al Daye
Canada

Posts 282
17 Sep 2008 22:17


I want Natami to be a console like PS 2, etc. That is my dream for Natami and actual console running AmigaOS, I get two of the best world. Personally and this is my personally opinion of course and nothing more, I would prefer to use serious stuff like applications and business using PC and Natami as a console with games and lots of games like PS 2, SNES, etc.  Having the ability to watch movies, chat online, browse the net and word processing on Natami would be all positive add-on but it's main objective games. Like consoles, I insert the DVD into the DVD player, turn it on and BANG auto-boot and run the game on DVD, save the games on HD like xBox 360 or USB memory stick. The load time for games running on DVD would be the same fast speed as PS 2 or xBox 360 etc, you will have the ability to install the game on HD if you choose to for fast processing speed but you can run the entire game on DVD.
 
 
  THAT PEOPLE IS MY BEST DREAM EVER ON NATAMI. Natami will be supported with Gamepad and vibration feature, it will have standard case for all Natamis, but attractive and console like, yup...what do you guys think? Please think hard before answering negatively to my idea...thanks in advance.

Oh yes, of course Natami will have TV output as standard a console running on anything beside a TV is not a console.

Joel Cholakians
USA

Posts 67
17 Sep 2008 23:12


@Laust
Thinking about an awareness campaign in regards to FPGA development in general but specifically re: NatAmi / MiniMig.

As for Sam440ep well that would be PPC focuses and it exists.

Amiga OS4.x same thing raise awareness to attract developers more so than users.  But users would get the same idea.  Use a better OS.

I need help, and good artistic talent and support.

The rest, I will take care of the thousands of unique user views through a network of websites.  But other are welcome to join the affiliate type network.

Thierry Atheist
Canada

Posts 1828
18 Sep 2008 06:56


Fahed Al Daye wrote:

Having the ability to watch movies, chat online, browse the net and word processing on Natami would be all positive add-on but it's main objective games. Like consoles, I insert the DVD into the DVD player, turn it on and BANG auto-boot and run the game on DVD, save the games on HD like xBox 360 or USB memory stick. The load time for games running on DVD would be the same fast speed as PS 2 or xBox 360 etc, you will have the ability to install the game on HD if you choose to for fast processing speed but you can run the entire game on DVD.

THAT PEOPLE IS MY BEST DREAM EVER ON NATAMI. Natami will be supported with Gamepad and vibration feature, it will have standard case for all Natamis, but attractive and console like, yup...what do you guys think? Please think hard before answering negatively to my idea...thanks in advance.

Oh yes, of course Natami will have TV output as standard a console running on anything beside a TV is not a console.


Hi Fahed,

I totally, totally, totally, totally DISAGREE with you!!!!!

"The load time for games running on DVD would be the same fast speed as PS 2...."

I will hunt you down if that's what you want for Natami! ;-) Have you ever USED a PS2??? It takes FOREVER to "boot up"! No, really, it takes waaaaaaaaay tooooooo loooong to boot up!! I played a first generation game on PS2, and it kept loading levels every 4 minutes, it was a total disgrace!

But YES, I agree with you totally that the NatAmi should be very console like, BUT it STILL IS a full blown computer, unlike a PS2 or a PS3 is.

Oh and, it really needs HDMI or at least 1920*1080 support, in the intital run, EVEN IF it's dead slow, at least single screen platform games and turn based RPGs should work, no problem. Otherwise, the rift between the models would be immense.

Fahed Al Daye
Canada

Posts 282
18 Sep 2008 14:20


I know you will disagree because it is my idea that is why.  Let me now remove the myths for you shall we?:
   
    This is what you said: I will hunt you down if that's what you want for Natami! ;-) Have you ever USED a PS2??? It takes FOREVER to "boot up"! No, really, it takes waaaaaaaaay tooooooo loooong to boot up!! I played a first generation game on PS2, and it kept loading levels every 4 minutes, it was a total disgrace!
   
    This is my response: Not only do I own a PS 2, I own over 30 games for it, so yeah I have experience with it. You are wrong with the boot up time, I played all my games on it and it is at speed of light.  I feel like I am running the game on cartridge, sure there are some games that take much longer, that is why I am giving the option to install the game. So my idea is a good one now, isn't it?
   
    This is what you said: But YES, I agree with you totally that the NatAmi should be very console like, BUT it STILL IS a full blown computer, unlike a PS2 or a PS3 is.
   
    This is my response: I disagree this time. It is too late for classical Amiga to be anything as a usable modern computer. There are hardly any or ever will be a modern browser for it, the movie players are barely catching up yet, yet it cannot play all the latest movies that PC or Mac can play. There are hardly essential business applications or a decent Software Development suite that can even come close to the .NET developer made by Microsoft. So many things Amiga classic is lacking that will take a very long time if ever to reach to the same usability as a normal modern PC. I say why make it do something it is not intended for? Instead turn it into a console machine and everything else we want on a computer that is added to it is a bonus. I am not saying stop developing applications for it, all I am saying concentrate on the game side and make it a console and anything extra is a bonus to it. That is what the classical Amiga was famous for with their custom chipset anyways, why should natami be any different? Besides, don't act like my word is the law, I am simply giving my opinion so don't freak out that the author of this project will take my idea into action, don't worry I don't have that much power.
   
    This is what you said: Oh and, it really needs HDMI or at least 1920*1080 support, in the intital run, EVEN IF it's dead slow, at least single screen platform games and turn based RPGs should work, no problem. Otherwise, the rift between the models would be immense.
   
    This is my response: I don't understand what you mean by it.

Michael Ward
USA

Posts 234
18 Sep 2008 16:37


Fahed,
 
  I'm thinking that once the core Natami technology is perfected, porting to various formats should be easily feasible. More so in the case of the 68070 FPGA based CPU. Desktop type systems, game or possibly video player systems, even much smaller portable devices. I am hoping that Natami would have a licensing system set up for anyone wanting to take the technology into other places. From large scale usage standpoint, I would tend to agree that non-desktop Natami applications would have more potential. I am in full support of future development in these regards. I also believe we need a desktop Natami for developers and general Amiga hobbyists. Modularity and size aspects of original Commodore - Natami improved designs should make just about any crowd happy. What do you think?
 
  Sincerely,
 
  Michael Ward
 

Fahed Al Daye
Canada

Posts 282
18 Sep 2008 18:40


Now you are talking my language. If Natami follows the trend of CD32 for example but better in everything, I think we have hit the jack pot all together. ALSO we can have like you said a development version of Natami where we develop for it as a normal desktop computer, now we are talking my language. I would DIFFIDENTLY buy the console version of Natami, insert the DVD in like the slim PS 2, hook it into my TV, put the game (NTSC/PAL versions like the PS 2) and see the beautiful Workbench on the background as it loads the game...NOW NOT ONLY DOES THIS BRING BACK TRUE memory BUT oh God I feel an orgasm thinking about it.

I LOVE IT!!! Of course the console case of Natami would have to be elegant, sexy like PS 2 slim or something similar, and we must have that flashing power LED when an error occurs with rumbling game pad and take full advantage of Super AGA giving same results as PS 2....I would like to order two of those consoles please.

Michael Ward
USA

Posts 234
18 Sep 2008 18:53


Fahed,
 
  So a desktop for developers-hobbyists. A console type player device. A gaming device. Or combine console player with gaming device. Small micro notebook like those being released w/ linux now. Various palm type gadgets (games, gps, mp3, video play, ?)
 
I would think all of this comes into play with 68070 based modular design. Many companies in the past have attempted most all of this, including I believe Commodore and its various post-death startups. By using upgraded Amiga core technology (hardware) and relatively standard Amiga OS core system, the sky is the limit as far as I can see. It would be a developers haven in my opinion. 

Jacek Rafal Tatko
Espania

Posts 607
18 Sep 2008 21:06


yes, a developers heaven... for those who really (buy) appreciate the hw design and the  amiga claassic OS vision.
people usually start to believe for a 'second time' once they can try it out... thoroughly.
; the human nature,
(by the way i think they are screening hannibal right now... for the music that makes the background of my post... i am becoming hungry... maybe a brain or two can satisfy my appetite...:):))
00:)

Michael Ward
USA

Posts 234
18 Sep 2008 21:26


You are on fire Jacek!
   
It is my belief that the Natami can provide a good computing - entertainment experience. This is what it is really about in my opinion. I'm fairly happy with my old A3000 (fairly stock machine with a just few modern upgrades). This old baby will not be able to compete with Natami.
   
Sincerely,
 
Michael

Thierry Atheist
Canada

Posts 1828
18 Sep 2008 23:34


Fahed Al Daye wrote:

I know you will disagree because it is my idea that is why.  Let me now remove the myths for you shall we?:

I do not disagree because it's you, or on the basis of the idea. I like it very much. I DO disagree that the NatAmi70 could not be used as a general purpose everyday computer..... It does most "everyday" things.

It should be able to play DVDs. It can do WP, DTP, email, database managament, drawing and animation quite well. Genlocking should be excellent! Can't wait to see it raytracing! Only web browsing it lags in, and that's only due to lack of SW. (Could some CPU routines be made that could speed up flash animation playback?? Would SIMD be able to do that?)

The reason it CAN compete with the likes of 3 GHz computers is because they KEEL OVER due to the operating systems they are cursed by to use.

Fahed Al Daye wrote:
This is my response: Not only do I own a PS 2, I own over 30 games for it, so yeah I have experience with it. You are wrong with the boot up time, I played all my games on it and it is at speed of light.

Well, the last time I used a Playstaion 2, that IS the experience I got. Boot up was loooong. I did have the first model (about 1 year after they made it.)

Fahed Al Daye wrote:

This is what you said: But YES, I agree with you totally that the NatAmi should be very console like, BUT it STILL IS a full blown computer, unlike a PS2 or a PS3 is.

This is my response: I disagree this time. It is too late for classical Amiga to be anything as a usable modern computer. There are hardly any or ever will be a modern browser for it, the movie players are barely catching up yet, yet it cannot play all the latest movies that PC or Mac can play.


Take a look here.
EXTERNAL LINK 
Now imagine that with 4 joystick ports and 2 for a keyboard and mouse. Also 2 CF card and 2 SD card slots. Tell me it's NOT better than a PS2 shaped console.
   
Fahed Al Daye wrote:
This is what you said: Oh and, it really needs HDMI or at least 1920*1080 support, in the intital run, EVEN IF it's dead slow, at least single screen platform games and turn based RPGs should work, no problem. Otherwise, the rift between the models would be immense.

This is my response: I don't understand what you mean by it.


Simply this:
If there is a NatAmi70 made, and it doesn't support 1080P and one year later, the NatAmi80 DOES, then it would be the same as, ECS coming out for merely one year and then AGA being available the next.... The difference would be TOO MUCH and not pleasant for the NatAmi70 users. They would feel cheated.

EVEN IF 1080 resolution is dog slow*, so what?, it could still be used to display photos and do WP and read text files. Turn based (RPG) games should play just fine too!

* I realize it's not going to make BluRay watching possible. And I'm sure everyone else does too.

Jacek Rafal Tatko
Espania

Posts 607
19 Sep 2008 00:05


1080p gunnar said it could be displayed if the 150Mhz are reached... but there is no guarantee that you could have a 'useful framerate' for games e.g. ... anyway it is just a screenmode or lets say a file...:) somebody will 'test' that for sure.

Almost 'nobody' will feel really cheated... because:
The Natami Team would announce a feature or a 'possible experiment' as such.
When a Machine is improved all needed is to retain Compatibility with the former. Natami·080 if you wish will be definetly warmly welcomed with all its new and useful improvements.
; A positive Speculation, a positive Mindset,
oo:)

Amiga Believer
Canada

Posts 282
19 Sep 2008 00:33


> I realize it's not going to make BluRay watching possible. And I'm sure everyone else does too.
I think you are wrong, Blu Ray watching will probably be feasible. I was able to play an H264 video with AAC sound at 640x480x24 (640x480x30 when outputting to /dev/null, and it did not take completely all the ressources, so the limitation likely came from the AGP bus) on a 400mhz Pentium II and a nVidia TNT2 pro 64 with Linux and Mplayer. A 1920x1080x60p video has 13,5 times the data. If a Pentium II with Linux can do SDTV video, the NatAmi running AmigaOS and some player better than mplayer can do HDTV video. Anyway, I already suggested adding a realtime H264 / AAC encoding / decoding chip to offload the processor.

Also, having native YUV support, transcoding from and to YUV as well as YUV screenmodes would help.


Thierry Atheist
Canada

Posts 1828
19 Sep 2008 04:52


Hi Amiga Believer,

Thanks for that information!

Well, we ALL hope something useful is possible.

I'm just wondering.... Anyone think that they released AOS4.1 for Sam440EP because of the NatAmi60/70 project??? Or is it just me?

Fahed Al Daye
Canada

Posts 282
19 Sep 2008 07:00


Next thing you are going to say we are invaded by aliens....

Jacek Rafal Tatko
Espania

Posts 607
19 Sep 2008 07:11


"Thierry has been abducted!"

S.H.S.

We have to programm soomthing to get him back...
Let's call the programm ROPE... it's purpose is to re-bind Thierry to our Natami Tree...
Don't let them take Thierry away from Us!(not without a Natami·060·WeltraumExplorerEdition·Computer...)
00:)244

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