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Gunnar von Boehn Germany
| | (Natami Team Member) Posts 3727 24 Jan 2010 22:26
| Team Chaos Leader wrote:
| The main reason I battled and fought and scratched and clawed my way onto the Natami team was to try to get you to fix the conceptual flaw.
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All you want is more SRC than 3, right?
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Team Chaos Leader USA
| | (Natami Team Member) Posts 1199 24 Jan 2010 22:51
| All you want is more SRC than 3, right?
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Yes, see how easy my idea is :) I need 7 sources to 1 destination to cover every possibility. I currently use 6 layers in the old AGA game. But it needs 1 more layer for special fx. The bottom layer needs to be copied over (not cookie cut) while all other layers are cookie cut on top of it simultaneously.
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Gunnar von Boehn Germany
| | (Natami Team Member) Posts 3727 25 Jan 2010 06:36
| Team Chaos Leader wrote:
| All you want is more SRC than 3, right? |
Yes, see how easy my idea is :) I need 7 sources to 1 destination to cover every possibility. I currently use 6 layers in the old AGA game. But it needs 1 more layer for special fx. The bottom layer needs to be copied over (not cookie cut) while all other layers are cookie cut on top of it simultaneously. |
I see what you mean. Of course what you do is a very very special case. The AMIGA Blitter can do this but not optimally. Which normally is no problem as I've never heard that someone was doing something similar. The OLD AMIGA blitter could do what you want but you need multible blits for it. With the 1st blit you could combine the opaque ground with another layer. Each new blit allows you to combine another layer. This means you did need 6 Blits total. With cookie-cut enhancement you can do 3 planes in the 1st go, and do 2 more layers with each next go. This means you can do your 7 layers in 3 Blits. This is already quite nice. The Natami Blitter should easily reach over 200 FPS doing this for a resolution of 640x480.In theory this could be enhanced by adding another SRC DMA. If we would add another SRC then the Blitter could to the 7 layers combine in just 2 Blit-runs.
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Christian Kummerow Germany
| | Posts 171 25 Jan 2010 10:03
| Gunnar von Boehn wrote:
| Interlace is dead and Interlace looks ugly. You know that a full 640x512 screen looks MUCH better than a 640x512i screen!
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But a Interlace TV Picture with movements inside looks better on Interlace. Without you have ugly stripes ;)
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Thomas Hirsch Germany
| | (Natami Team Member) Posts 233 28 Jan 2010 01:56
| @Christian I don't even know whether a common TFT can display an interlaced VGA picture. So *no* interlace. But I am quite sure that a common TFT (with VGA/DVI) can not display 15kHz video formats like a TV picture. For that the NatAmi has a builtin scandoubler. So *no* interlace.But as it is a scandoubler and *not* a flicker-fixer an Amiga interlace view will be promoted to a SVGA 800x600 resolution in either 50 or 60Hz. The first full frame will contain all odd lines while all even lines are drawn in black/background or whatever. And the second full frame will contain all even lines with the odd ones in black/background or whatever. This method will result in a non-interlaced display with the old and well known interlace flickering. And you will not have to worry about any ugly stripes. @Marcel The Blitter (on which I am working right now) will only be able to read and write from/to ChipRAM. The FastRAM side is not done yet. When this is done I will have in mind allowing the Blitter read access to FastRAM. But this is not the highest priority right now.
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Thomas Richter Germany
| | Posts 695 28 Jan 2010 02:04
| Thomas Hirsch wrote:
| @Christian I don't even know whether a common TFT can display an interlaced VGA picture. So *no* interlace. But I am quite sure that a common TFT (with VGA/DVI) can not display 15kHz video formats like a TV picture. For that the NatAmi has a builtin scandoubler. So *no* interlace.
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"It depends". Some models support interlace. Mine, for example, doesn't.So long, Thomas
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Team Chaos Leader USA
| | (Natami Team Member) Posts 1199 28 Jan 2010 02:08
| My Natami will be connected to my NEC Multisync 75 CRT monitor which accepts any 31Khz or higher signal I throw at it. I use it to display 640x512, 640x400, etc. etc. Amiga resolutions all the time. This is also my main Windoze XP monitor for web browsing at 1280x800. I don't want to view a 640x512 screen on an 800x600 screen. That would be terrible. Not everyone owns a TFT (I never have).
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Marcel Verdaasdonk Netherlands
| | Posts 2089 28 Jan 2010 02:54
| I have most CRT screens i own and that didn't were broke when i retired then still around.
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Joe M Norway
| | Posts 164 28 Jan 2010 14:08
| Team Chaos Leader wrote:
| Not everyone owns a TFT (I never have).
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Same here. CRT monitors are way more flexible. My opinion is that TFT monitors are a step back. What do TFT monitors offer that CRT's are missing? Well, of course they are slimmer in size and are said to produce less radiation as well:My experience is actually that the eyes are getting more tired after staring into an LCD screen over a period of time. I have a friend who claims the opposite, but I think he used to set the contrast level on his CRT way too high.
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Team Chaos Leader USA
| | (Natami Team Member) Posts 1199 28 Jan 2010 23:12
| I will never own a TFT screen. If I want a BIG screen then I use the BIGGEST (my 61" DLP) If I want a flexible nonracist screen that does not discriminate against PAL, or 640x512 or 1280x512, etc, etc then I use my CRT. I belive a 640x512 screen should fill the entire screen as it does on my NEC Multisync 75. My CRT is shared via KVM switch between Windoze XP bgcPC and A1200T.
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Marcel Verdaasdonk Netherlands
| | Posts 2089 29 Jan 2010 00:00
| Hm that reminds me i should look for a PS/2 KVM switch so i can test that part completely.(Already have a USB one)
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Casey R Williams USA
| | Posts 97 29 Jan 2010 00:50
| Joe M wrote:
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Team Chaos Leader wrote:
| Not everyone owns a TFT (I never have). |
Same here. CRT monitors are way more flexible. My opinion is that TFT monitors are a step back. What do TFT monitors offer that CRT's are missing? Well, of course they are slimmer in size and are said to produce less radiation as well: My experience is actually that the eyes are getting more tired after staring into an LCD screen over a period of time. I have a friend who claims the opposite, but I think he used to set the contrast level on his CRT way too high.
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My eyes were getting tired from my new monitor also. Started to realize it wasn't the contrast but that my eyes were now scanning a larger area than they were accustomed to.
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Brett M Australia
| | Posts 12 29 Jan 2010 01:34
| You need to set the refresh rate to 75hz. I can't last more than an hour on a screen at 60hz (nausea). It makes no difference if it is a CRT or Flat panel. It's bearable on a TV maybe because you eyes are moving around.
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Jens Drößler Germany
| | Posts 72 19 Feb 2010 08:00
| Actually it's bearable on a TV because the displayed content is moving around all the time AND the afterglow of the CRT-TV is set for 50 or 60Hz interlaced operation. A flat panel does NOT flicker by itself. Only if the source isn't clean. It is true, that the FPS is 60Hz most of the time, but this is only the rate of new content transported to the buffers of the LCD. The actual LCD panel is refreshed far more often. And even if it wouldn't... there is no afterglow. A pixel will not get dark before new content is written to it. I think your complaints about LCDs are based on hearsay by people stepping from a 17" CRT to a >20" LCD. I'm royally pissed if I have to work on CRTs with 60Hz. I notice this the second the CRT is turned on (while the computer is already running of course), but I don't notice this on any good LCD display (one of my customers has a really cheap LCD monitor, yes, that thing seems to flicker, I think the voltage control isn't smooth). LCDs have some disadvantages of course. The colors are a bit off (unless you buy a really expensive one with a color correction system) and the black isn't really a black (unless the whole screen goes black with current models, because in this case the backlight is dimmed down or unless you have an LED backlight with local dimming). But eye fatigues (by principle) are not on that list... BTW any TFT with HDMI should be able to work with interlaced screens, as HDTV has modes like 480i and 1080i, which are indeed used (which doesn't mean I like them... if I have had to do the HD specs, I would have killed interlaced modes from the beginning, well maybe 480i/576i for compatibility to NTSC/PAL, but not in the hidef modes!).
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Thomas Richter Germany
| | Posts 695 19 Feb 2010 10:20
| Joe M wrote:
| Same here. CRT monitors are way more flexible. My opinion is that TFT monitors are a step back. What do TFT monitors offer that CRT's are missing?
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a) they don't flicker. b) they have a sharp picture. I was getting tired of the CRTs. Even though I had a pretty good CRT back then, the 60Hz flicker was annoying, and you could either have it sharp in the middle of the screen, or at the edges, but not both. Same with even more expensive screens we had in the office - focus is a principle problem of CRTs since the electron beam must be bend, and for that a round (sphere segment) screen would be ideal, but not a flat one, so you get all problems with geometry. None of that problems exist with LCDs. No, I don't want to get back. What I do find annoying in the LCD market is that you are no longer able to get a 3/4 screen, but instead all the "wide-screen" displays. Which is nice for movies, but pretty bad for programming since there a long tall screen is much better suited to display program code. Joe M wrote:
| My experience is actually that the eyes are getting more tired after staring into an LCD screen over a period of time. I have a friend who claims the opposite, but I think he used to set the contrast level on his CRT way too high.
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I'm getting less tired on the LCD, definitely. The picture is just so much better than the CRT picture. Plus, CRTs tend to collect dust, due to static electricity. Doesn't happen with LCDs. So long, Thomas
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Marcel Verdaasdonk Netherlands
| | Posts 2089 19 Feb 2010 13:40
| Thomas you could rotate a screen 90 degrees, i wonder if that would be an option for the Natami too. Back to topic, I can't wait on the next update!!!
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Thomas Hirsch Germany
| | (Natami Team Member) Posts 233 15 Mar 2010 22:05
| @Marcel I already thought about that. And I think this is a tough issue. The burst in Memory would turn by 90 degrees also. So I would not promise anything on that matter.
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Thomas Hirsch Germany
| | (Natami Team Member) Posts 233 15 Mar 2010 22:06
| Video DMA Just to revive this thread I'd like to show the pictute of the now closed circle:

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Richard Maudsley United Kingdom
| | (Natami Team Member) Posts 397 15 Mar 2010 22:16
| FOR SCIENCE! Just out of interest, how much more work is needed before it can boot workbench? I undersand if you don't want to say in the public part of the forum.
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Thomas Hirsch Germany
| | (Natami Team Member) Posts 233 15 Mar 2010 23:48
| Maybe it is a good idea to create and carry a table: SyncZorro Interface ... preliminary (PCI) version Copper ................ fully implemented Video DMA ............. fully implemented 256 colour regiters ... fully implemented Video priority ........ half implemented Scandoubler ........... fully implemented Audio DMA ............. o VGA out ............... working DVI out ............... o PCI ................... o IDE ................... o
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